Moog Subsequent 37

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stylesforfree
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Post by stylesforfree » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:35 pm

chaosick wrote:
anselmi wrote:
stylesforfree wrote:Is there a way to use the subsequent 37 cv as a polyphonic controller for a eurorack system?
only with a MIDI/CV polyphonic interface...the CV out is monophonic only
Oooh, another score for the Dominion 1. + its cheaper.
Damnit, I knew I should have got the Dominion 1....ah well, I do have paraphonic control over my eurorack which is still cool.

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Post by chaosick » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:54 pm

stylesforfree wrote:
chaosick wrote:
anselmi wrote:
stylesforfree wrote:Is there a way to use the subsequent 37 cv as a polyphonic controller for a eurorack system?
only with a MIDI/CV polyphonic interface...the CV out is monophonic only
Oooh, another score for the Dominion 1. + its cheaper.
Damnit, I knew I should have got the Dominion 1....ah well, I do have paraphonic control over my eurorack which is still cool.
Yep, it's pretty great. I have a bunch of AJH modules, so the best of both worlds.

stylesforfree
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Post by stylesforfree » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:55 pm

chaosick wrote:
stylesforfree wrote:
chaosick wrote:
anselmi wrote:
stylesforfree wrote:Is there a way to use the subsequent 37 cv as a polyphonic controller for a eurorack system?
only with a MIDI/CV polyphonic interface...the CV out is monophonic only
Oooh, another score for the Dominion 1. + its cheaper.
Damnit, I knew I should have got the Dominion 1....ah well, I do have paraphonic control over my eurorack which is still cool.
Yep, it's pretty great. I have a bunch of AJH modules, so the best of both worlds.
Im thinking about the AJH range, they're priced quite nicely too, I do have 2 mother 32's so im wondering what the sound difference is between the AJH and the mother 32 oscillators.

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Post by rowsbywoof » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:27 pm

So, Moog is saying the Subsequent is now the new standard, but minus the CV. Seems weird they are keeping the CV model limited to 2000 units and not making that the new standard, albeit with the woody aesthetic. Oh well, at least the signal upgrades and tweaks will make it into the Sub37 now for the same price of entry as the old keyboard. That's not a bad thing!

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chaosick
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Post by chaosick » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:01 pm

stylesforfree wrote:
chaosick wrote:
stylesforfree wrote:
chaosick wrote:
anselmi wrote:
stylesforfree wrote:Is there a way to use the subsequent 37 cv as a polyphonic controller for a eurorack system?
only with a MIDI/CV polyphonic interface...the CV out is monophonic only
Oooh, another score for the Dominion 1. + its cheaper.
Damnit, I knew I should have got the Dominion 1....ah well, I do have paraphonic control over my eurorack which is still cool.
Yep, it's pretty great. I have a bunch of AJH modules, so the best of both worlds.
Im thinking about the AJH range, they're priced quite nicely too, I do have 2 mother 32's so im wondering what the sound difference is between the AJH and the mother 32 oscillators.
One is a mass production, budget-entry synth voice/intro to Eurorack by a medium-to-large sized company that has the word "Moog" on it, but is basically a modern construct with ladder filters, as far as I can tell. AJH is a one (two?) man operation of the highest quality components (just check out the specs on their website)--the VCO, for instance, is:
When discussing the Model D oscillators, enthusiasts often refer to the “early” or “late” model VCO cards, however contrary to popular belief there were not two but three different types of oscillator cards fitted to the Model D during it's lifetime, comprising:

1 –The very early and now very rare all discrete transistor RA Moog model.

2 - The “Early” CA3046 transistor array design with matched dual fet amplifier stage.

3- the “Late” UA726 and op-amp based VCO, which was the most common model.

When we decided to recreate the Model D in Eurorack format we tested, evaluated and built prototypes of all three VCO designs before settling upon the very early design, it just sounded slightly “sweeter” to our ears.

The very early oscillator cards were a fully discrete transistor design. Of the 17,000+ Model D’s produced less than 300 featured this oscillator. Early Model D’s fitted with this VCO card are the most highly prized of all Model D’s, and currently sport asking prices of up to US $15,000.
http://www.ajhsynth.com/VCO.html

This care and attention to detail applies for all their modules IMO.

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Post by ludotex » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:07 am

I really like the cleaner sound of the subsequent. I wish somewhow we could swap a board on the tribute to make it behave like that. I dont feel like selling and rebuying the synth... :despair:

The video with Cory Henry is pretty cool:

[video][/video]
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Post by thevegasnerve » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:48 am

It does appear that Moog has slowed down their new product development and focused on refining some of their more successful products while rethinking the future. I think Behringer/Roland/Korg has forced this a little with their latest product offerings. Not a bad thing in my mind, although I think they may struggle to continue at the same profit margins/growth they have achieved without a careful strategy moving forward. I am guessing that means more euro, digital, and a poly.

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Post by Leviathant » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:49 am

ludotex wrote:I really like the cleaner sound of the subsequent. I wish somewhow we could swap a board on the tribute to make it behave like that. I dont feel like selling and rebuying the synth... :despair:
Moog replied to a question about this on Facebook and said there's no way to convert a Sub 37 to a Subsequent 37, which... seems unlikely, or at the very least, seems forced. Hopefully when enough folks get their hands on these, we can see what's going on under the hood. I guess if it *is* easy to swap everything out, you could run into issues with people buying a Subsequent, swapping the internals, and unloading the Subsequent with Sub37 guts in it.

It makes me appreciate that DSI has never been shy about DIY circuit board swap upgrades.

Having said that, I'm perfectly cool with the sound of my Sub37, and I think it's got the better name. No one I've written music for has asked me for a little more headroom in the Moog's signal path, or complained about the characteristics of the internal distortion. It's good that they've iterated on the Tribute Edition at no extra cost to newcomers, but it's also good that the Tribute Edition does what it does so well already (IMHO)

estin

Post by estin » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:31 am

Interesting to hear the sonic difference. I do prefer the sound (based on this small demo) of the new revision. I am still not really hearing that high end fizz that all moog's besides the model D seem to lack.

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Post by jvt » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:57 pm

ludotex wrote:I really like the cleaner sound of the subsequent. I wish somewhow we could swap a board on the tribute to make it behave like that. I dont feel like selling and rebuying the synth... :despair:
Honestly, I feel the same way. I wish there was at least some kind of trade-in offer towards a Subsequent 37 of choice.

stylesforfree
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Post by stylesforfree » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:03 am

chaosick wrote:
stylesforfree wrote:
chaosick wrote:
stylesforfree wrote:
chaosick wrote:
anselmi wrote:
stylesforfree wrote:Is there a way to use the subsequent 37 cv as a polyphonic controller for a eurorack system?
only with a MIDI/CV polyphonic interface...the CV out is monophonic only
Oooh, another score for the Dominion 1. + its cheaper.
Damnit, I knew I should have got the Dominion 1....ah well, I do have paraphonic control over my eurorack which is still cool.
Yep, it's pretty great. I have a bunch of AJH modules, so the best of both worlds.
Im thinking about the AJH range, they're priced quite nicely too, I do have 2 mother 32's so im wondering what the sound difference is between the AJH and the mother 32 oscillators.
One is a mass production, budget-entry synth voice/intro to Eurorack by a medium-to-large sized company that has the word "Moog" on it, but is basically a modern construct with ladder filters, as far as I can tell. AJH is a one (two?) man operation of the highest quality components (just check out the specs on their website)--the VCO, for instance, is:
When discussing the Model D oscillators, enthusiasts often refer to the “early” or “late” model VCO cards, however contrary to popular belief there were not two but three different types of oscillator cards fitted to the Model D during it's lifetime, comprising:

1 –The very early and now very rare all discrete transistor RA Moog model.

2 - The “Early” CA3046 transistor array design with matched dual fet amplifier stage.

3- the “Late” UA726 and op-amp based VCO, which was the most common model.

When we decided to recreate the Model D in Eurorack format we tested, evaluated and built prototypes of all three VCO designs before settling upon the very early design, it just sounded slightly “sweeter” to our ears.

The very early oscillator cards were a fully discrete transistor design. Of the 17,000+ Model D’s produced less than 300 featured this oscillator. Early Model D’s fitted with this VCO card are the most highly prized of all Model D’s, and currently sport asking prices of up to US $15,000.
http://www.ajhsynth.com/VCO.html

This care and attention to detail applies for all their modules IMO.
Indeed, I have kept my eye on the AJH minimod series for quite some time, the VCO sounds pretty good from the raw soundfiles on their soundcloud but ultimately I think I have those kind of sounds covered either way. The Mother 32 has the word Moog on it for damn good reason methinks. :guinness:

estin

Post by estin » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:25 am

mousegarden wrote:[video][/video]

I wouldn't buy a 37 of any sort based on this video, it depends what you're after obviously, but the 37 sounds "small" and dirty, the Voyager sounds massive, and "alive" in comparison. The 37 just doesn't sound very Moog-like to me.
Really shocked the Voyager is considered "much brighter" I thought it was quite dark sounding.......the Sub37 sounds way too dark for me. Why not just give us the fizzy top end and let us subtract it with the filter for darker sounds? :despair:

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Post by mintmark » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:55 am

OK, here's an update regarding my multi-synth experience.

Good news... I had pre-ordered a subsequent 37 cv and it arrived a month earlier than originally estimated. That was a couple of weeks ago.
Bad news... I had it for a few days, comparing with my sub 37 and my waldorf, and I sent it back for a refund. Someone else is enjoying it now.

Reasons... well, it just left me underwhelmed. On the one hand was the cost of upgrading from sub 37 to subsequent 37 cv... maybe £700, and having to sell the old one. On the other hand were the improvements...

The CV outputs are good. They seem quite flexible. A good feature.
The upgraded keyboard... is a little bit better than the sub 37, but the improvement is very marginal. I didn't try the headphone amp.

The sound... I have to say first I don't push the sub 37 anywhere near its limits yet. If you set them both to the same settings you get the same sound. The multidrive knob is different... I think about 80% on the subsequent is like 100% on the sub, so you can turn that up a bit.

I noticed more difference with the feedback control. With the oscillators slightly detuned it seemed easier to get distortion on the subsequent, although I could make the sub do it too. Instead of a slowly phasing beat you get a more discrete on and off distortion. Yuk. The subsequent seemed to do that more readily and I didn't like it.

I didn't have the Waldorf when I pre-ordered the subsequent, but now I do have the Waldorf it does a much better job at ticking the CV output and better keyboard boxes.

I think the subsequent felt like a very marginal improvement to the sub... and it makes sense that it becomes the standard model now.

Mark

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Post by mousegarden » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:24 am

estin wrote:
mousegarden wrote:[video][/video]

I wouldn't buy a 37 of any sort based on this video, it depends what you're after obviously, but the 37 sounds "small" and dirty, the Voyager sounds massive, and "alive" in comparison. The 37 just doesn't sound very Moog-like to me.
Really shocked the Voyager is considered "much brighter" I thought it was quite dark sounding.......the Sub37 sounds way too dark for me. Why not just give us the fizzy top end and let us subtract it with the filter for darker sounds? :despair:
Me too, I thought my Voyager sounded dull in comparison to a Model D, god knows how dull a 37 is.

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Top 3 things to plug into Subsequent 37 CV outs

Post by Dave Stayawake » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:21 am

Hi folks. I'm new to all this stuff having been in lazy soft synth world for a while, using primarily Mainstage for sounds. My band has finally badgered me enough to invest in a "proper" synth and, for various reasons, I went for the new Subsequent 37 CV and am loving it so far.

I was planning to just use it as is for a while and get used to it. Then later on, I figured I could hook some more stuff up to the CV outs and start to dabble in mod world once I've got to grips with it.

So, with regards to the last point, I just want to know what other people think the top 3 things that I should think about investing in to use the CV outs for as I really don't quite know where to begin or what I might want, so looking for a few thoughts and the reasoning behind them.

Go team...

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Post by MARK27 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:44 am

Leviathant wrote:
ludotex wrote:I really like the cleaner sound of the subsequent. I wish somewhow we could swap a board on the tribute to make it behave like that. I dont feel like selling and rebuying the synth... :despair:
Moog replied to a question about this on Facebook and said there's no way to convert a Sub 37 to a Subsequent 37, which... seems unlikely, or at the very least, seems forced.
That's interesting, because I just saw this a couple of days ago.

http://moogmusic.us2.list-manage.com/su ... 5d4cf083c4

There were people on the Moog forum wondering if maybe this was BS, but it appears to be legit.

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Post by Oblivion » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:15 pm

Looks pretty legit. If it's a phish simply for an e-mail address, it's pretty thorough.

I'm not THAT interested in the changes, but put my name on the list with a spare address just in case the price is right.
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estin

Post by estin » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:38 pm

Interesting if they offer an upgrade path, but I'll never understand the idea of "I was perfectly happy with my purchase until they announced something new, now I feel cheated and wronged" Its the same when a MKII of whatever comes out a short while after someone buys a MKI.

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Post by MARK27 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:03 pm

The main thing -- actually, the only thing that really interests me about the new version is the harder, asymmetrical drive.

If they asked for me for $40-$50 to install the new multi-drive, I'd pay that.
:guinness:

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Post by Nightly Closures » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:36 am

I'd enjoy upgraded drive, mixer flexibility and cv outs. I'm fine with the keybed.

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Post by MARK27 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:29 pm

For some reason I thought only the silver special edition had the additional cv i/o. I could be wrong.

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Post by Mikeyg3k » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:54 am

This is promising for those of You who feel left out in the cold -

http://moogmusic.us2.list-manage.com/su ... 5d4cf083c4

Sub 37 Upgrade
We recently released the Subsequent 37, an updated version of an already wonderful instrument in the original Sub 37 (MusicTech.net’s Gold Award winner for “Best Hardware” 2015, and “Best Keyboard/Synth of 2016” from SoundOnSound). We hope that you will continue to enjoy your Sub 37 in light of the new Subsequent 37 release, as they are both excellent tools for creative expression, each with their own sonic flavor.

If you feel that you would prefer the features of the Subsequent 37 over the features of your original Sub 37, we will be offering an upgrade option for existing Sub 37 owners (we’ll need a little time to get the parts together). You can signup below to receive an email once the full details are available. In the meantime, please continue to enjoy your Sub 37—it is a fantastic instrument on its own merit and will bring you countless hours of enjoyment.


Love,
Your friends at Moog

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Post by Truckfumes » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:02 am

Yes we are discontinuing the Sub 37 and replacing it with an almost identical synth with a reworked amp and some other refinements, but please continue to enjoy your Sub 37 it's an excellent instrument. :hihi:

I had my Sub 37 for about a month or two when it first came out.
It was obvious to me that the synth was severely lacking.

After that I try to avoid "analog" synths that get firmware updates.
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MARK27
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Post by MARK27 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:36 pm

I don't think it's a firmware update.

I think they are talking about physically replacing older parts with newer ones.

But if you never liked the synth to begin with, why are you even paying attention?

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Post by chvad » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:21 pm

someone has ta complain about somethin! wouldn't be internetz without it!

Not really sure I feel the need to upgrade my 37. Always seemed fine as is really. Plenty of compelling sounds come from it.

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