Animal Factory Amplification

New Hosted Sub-Forum. Check it out here:
Not exactly a new manufacturer but new to us. Check out their pedal and eurorack product and extend them a welcome all the way to Mumbai!

Where is my Vermona 14!

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

Moderators: Kent, Joe., luketeaford, Kent, Joe., luketeaford

Post Reply
User avatar
revtor
Dialing it in..
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:31 am
Location: North Jerz

Post by revtor »

Bad pot or three perhaps?
User avatar
cscairney
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:36 am

Post by cscairney »

chvad wrote:
cscairney wrote:not convinced...
yeah i mean... the explanation doesn't 100% make sense to me either. maybe my hands are shaking all over the place and i'm not realizing it. lol
haha

:hyper:
User avatar
chvad
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3474
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:23 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Post by chvad »

revtor wrote:Bad pot or three perhaps?
not inclined to think this with it re-occurring over other synths and such. curious if vermona will write back again or if that will be that. who can tell? good thing the synth sounds absolutely killer lol.
nidas
Common Wiggler
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:54 am
Location: Sweden

Post by nidas »

I have the same "problem" / quirkiness jitter on my with serial 70..
Guess its on all of them - don´t understand the explanation either.
User avatar
chvad
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3474
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:23 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Post by chvad »

So my last email to Vermona was:
"Thanks for looking at the video. So if I understand correctly, the sustain for the envelope covers a smaller range than the EG INT knob?"

And they just responded:
"SUSTAIN always goes from 0 to 100%. If you raise EG INT to the maximum, SUSTAIN does exactly cover that range. But EG INT works bipolar and therefore has only half of the physical range."

I was hoping for maybe something that made a little more sense regarding the behavior of EG knobs but I guess that's the response. Ah well. Not anything that makes a ton of sense to me but I'll assume given the number of people experiencing the same behavior it's not a defect but something in the design.

At worst it's an odd thing. At best it'd an opportunity for a different tone from the synth to be had?
User avatar
DiscoDevil
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: St Paul, MN
Contact:

Post by DiscoDevil »

chvad wrote:So my last email to Vermona was:
"Thanks for looking at the video. So if I understand correctly, the sustain for the envelope covers a smaller range than the EG INT knob?"

And they just responded:
"SUSTAIN always goes from 0 to 100%. If you raise EG INT to the maximum, SUSTAIN does exactly cover that range. But EG INT works bipolar and therefore has only half of the physical range."

I was hoping for maybe something that made a little more sense regarding the behavior of EG knobs but I guess that's the response. Ah well. Not anything that makes a ton of sense to me but I'll assume given the number of people experiencing the same behavior it's not a defect but something in the design.

At worst it's an odd thing. At best it'd an opportunity for a different tone from the synth to be had?

So what they're saying is because the control is bipolar, the entire 100% range of the SUSTAIN control is crammed in to one half of the EG Intensity control. Sort of makes sense but what you hear seems to be something less predictable.
User avatar
chvad
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3474
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:23 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Post by chvad »

Totally. Range differences make total sense but not with the jumpiness of it. Eh. Fun enough to discuss and investigate. Im more curious about the "why" more so than any "fixes" or anything. I'm totally happy with the synth... I just haven't seen this behavior in any other synths Ive had before. Their "why" just doesn't make a ton of sense is all. But it's all good. :bananaguitar:
dopefiend
Likes SHOUTING!
Posts: 1333
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: florida, USA

Post by dopefiend »

While this discussion goes on, I keep playing and enjoying this little gem of a synth, and asking myself: what is the relevance of this quirk for me, to the overall performance/ quality of the instrument? Mind you, as I mentioned before, mine doesn’t have the issue, but I don’t think I would have ever found out had it not been for this thread...I guess when one pays $2K for a mono synth, one should get EXACTLY what they want/ need.

Hope they fix this, for those to whom it makes a difference. :despair:
Noisemakers: Maracas. Squeaky shoes. Bean-induced flatulence.
An oncologist is like The Lone Ranger: he is chemo savvy.
User avatar
DiscoDevil
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: St Paul, MN
Contact:

Post by DiscoDevil »

dopefiend wrote:While this discussion goes on, I keep playing and enjoying this little gem of a synth, and asking myself: what is the relevance of this quirk for me, to the overall performance/ quality of the instrument? Mind you, as I mentioned before, mine doesn’t have the issue, but I don’t think I would have ever found out had it not been for this thread...I guess when one pays $2K for a mono synth, one should get EXACTLY what they want/ need.

Hope they fix this, for those to whom it makes a difference. :despair:
I would never have noticed it in my regular use and it really doesn't impact me at all, it's just a curiosity.
User avatar
chvad
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3474
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:23 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Post by chvad »

DiscoDevil wrote:
dopefiend wrote:While this discussion goes on, I keep playing and enjoying this little gem of a synth, and asking myself: what is the relevance of this quirk for me, to the overall performance/ quality of the instrument? Mind you, as I mentioned before, mine doesn’t have the issue, but I don’t think I would have ever found out had it not been for this thread...I guess when one pays $2K for a mono synth, one should get EXACTLY what they want/ need.

Hope they fix this, for those to whom it makes a difference. :despair:
I would never have noticed it in my regular use and it really doesn't impact me at all, it's just a curiosity.
i feel the same
User avatar
chvad
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3474
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:23 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Post by chvad »

Some 14 for the higher pitched sounds about halfway through. Such a pretty sounding synth.
http://soundcloud.com/chvad/fare-thee-well-kholos
zaphod betamax
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: sarnia

Post by zaphod betamax »

So, what is the bug with the sustain?
Never noticed anything digital or glitchy.

See below. No option to Delete this message in Edit..
Last edited by zaphod betamax on Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
zaphod betamax
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: sarnia

Post by zaphod betamax »

Is there a video I could watch?
#62/of 222
chvad wrote:So my last email to Vermona was:
"Thanks for looking at the video. So if I understand correctly, the sustain for the envelope covers a smaller range than the EG INT knob?"

And they just responded:
"SUSTAIN always goes from 0 to 100%. If you raise EG INT to the maximum, SUSTAIN does exactly cover that range. But EG INT works bipolar and therefore has only half of the physical range."

I was hoping for maybe something that made a little more sense regarding the behavior of EG knobs but I guess that's the response. Ah well. Not anything that makes a ton of sense to me but I'll assume given the number of people experiencing the same behavior it's not a defect but something in the design.

At worst it's an odd thing. At best it'd an opportunity for a different tone from the synth to be had?
User avatar
chvad
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3474
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:23 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Post by chvad »

i posted one somewhere. ill look for the link and repost. it's not anything that bothers me really just a thing i noticed. i'm at rehearsal late tonight so ill try to repost tomorrow. cheers! -c
User avatar
DiscoDevil
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: St Paul, MN
Contact:

Post by DiscoDevil »

chvad wrote:From Thomas at Vermona:
"thanks for the video. That has nothing to do with jitter as this works completely analog. That simply happens because of the huge amount of 6 octaves on the INTENSITY potentiometer. If we‘d lower the range it would become better."
What do y'all think? I suppose it makes some sense BUT wouldn't the sustain parameter then have the same issue? I'm not in any place to know too much about circuit design.
Since the EG Int is bipolar, like he said, the entire 6 octave range is squished in to half a turn of the EG Int knob. The same range is spread across the entire Env Sustain knob so it sounds much smoother. This makes some sense to me.
smitty.west
Common Wiggler
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:35 pm

Post by smitty.west »

If I've got a PERfourMER Mk II, am I missing out big time not having a '14? Was really intrigued upon release, but not so sure it's a MUST for me now. Thoughts? BTW, Vermona sound is probably my favourite contemporary synth sound- the right combination of vintage and their own unique thing. LOVE.
User avatar
DiscoDevil
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: St Paul, MN
Contact:

Post by DiscoDevil »

smitty.west wrote:If I've got a PERfourMER Mk II, am I missing out big time not having a '14? Was really intrigued upon release, but not so sure it's a MUST for me now. Thoughts? BTW, Vermona sound is probably my favourite contemporary synth sound- the right combination of vintage and their own unique thing. LOVE.
Well, you've got most of the sound covered. The 14 is a complete instrument and has some more features so I guess if those are important to you, get one.
paranoidmoonduck
Common Wiggler
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:18 pm

Post by paranoidmoonduck »

smitty.west wrote:If I've got a PERfourMER Mk II, am I missing out big time not having a '14? Was really intrigued upon release, but not so sure it's a MUST for me now. Thoughts? BTW, Vermona sound is probably my favourite contemporary synth sound- the right combination of vintage and their own unique thing. LOVE.
I guess it would depend on how your use your perfourmer and the form-factor differences. I love being able to use the perfourmer as a mono and poly, so it would be hard to give that up.

(also, I have it on good authority that Vermona is at least working on a true poly, which I imagine might be more in the '14 form-factor. who knows how far away it is though)
smitty.west
Common Wiggler
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:35 pm

Post by smitty.west »

paranoidmoonduck wrote:
smitty.west wrote:If I've got a PERfourMER Mk II, am I missing out big time not having a '14? Was really intrigued upon release, but not so sure it's a MUST for me now. Thoughts? BTW, Vermona sound is probably my favourite contemporary synth sound- the right combination of vintage and their own unique thing. LOVE.
I guess it would depend on how your use your perfourmer and the form-factor differences. I love being able to use the perfourmer as a mono and poly, so it would be hard to give that up.

(also, I have it on good authority that Vermona is at least working on a true poly, which I imagine might be more in the '14 form-factor. who knows how far away it is though)
wow, a vermona poly?! holy smokes...

yeah, '14 form factor is definitely more appealing to how i work, but i think i'll hold off... it's really tempting, but...
zaphod betamax
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: sarnia

Post by zaphod betamax »

Re: Vermona '14
Mixed with a perFOURmer as a MIDI slave 4 voice, it is heaven

Mixed with the Dreadbox Abyss 4 voice, it is more abysmal a mix.

So for sets I have 14 control a perFOURMer
and an MS-20kit control the Dreadbox Abyss.

They mix better as these sets IMO
zaphod betamax
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: sarnia

Post by zaphod betamax »

Now I am aware of this, I will try, and report back.
#62/of 222.

chvad wrote:So my last email to Vermona was:
"Thanks for looking at the video. So if I understand correctly, the sustain for the envelope covers a smaller range than the EG INT knob?"

And they just responded:
"SUSTAIN always goes from 0 to 100%. If you raise EG INT to the maximum, SUSTAIN does exactly cover that range. But EG INT works bipolar and therefore has only half of the physical range."

I was hoping for maybe something that made a little more sense regarding the behavior of EG knobs but I guess that's the response. Ah well. Not anything that makes a ton of sense to me but I'll assume given the number of people experiencing the same behavior it's not a defect but something in the design.

At worst it's an odd thing. At best it'd an opportunity for a different tone from the synth to be had?
zaphod betamax
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: sarnia

Post by zaphod betamax »

To me, the issue is more pronounced with more resonance.
Last edited by zaphod betamax on Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
chvad
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3474
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:23 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Post by chvad »

not according to Vermona:
"That has nothing to do with jitter as this works completely analog. That simply happens because of the huge amount of 6 octaves on the INTENSITY potentiometer. If we‘d lower the range it would become better."
zaphod betamax
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: sarnia

Post by zaphod betamax »

Don't know then. I only notice the posted issue and tried it out.
But in my normal OTB setup it has never crossed my concern list.
Others may think different ...
User avatar
shaft9000
wait, what?
Posts: 1215
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:25 am
Location: Van Nuys, California

Post by shaft9000 »

my apologies if this has been asked already - does the CV output sum vibrato and pitchbend like my ARP Solus does?
That is the one thing that keeps me from buying most any other CV keyboard; if the '14 does this I will be even more tempted.

youtube.com/shaft9000 ◄ modcanA+euro follies
Post Reply

Return to “General Gear”