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PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

From circuitbending to homebrew stompboxes & synths, keep the DIY spirit alive!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

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Kipling
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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by Kipling » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:38 am

mlw123 wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:19 am
Hi all I have this chip in my bits box it was part of a trade of Roland OTA's.
Shall I use it @ U3 instead of AS3046?
Yes no problem. You may want to test it first to be sure all five transistors are OK.

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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by mlw123 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:23 pm

Will hook it up to the tester!! Thank you for this!

I did wonder when I'd use it so props to the vendor for gifting it to me :)

Progue is turning out a pretty expensive build so far though - those trimmers - I just went with the BOM but they are pricey...along with a few obsoletes and non stocked too.

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Kipling
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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by Kipling » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:14 pm

The AS3046 is equivalent to CA3046 and LM3046 so any one will do.

On the subject of trimmers, the specified Bourns 3214X ones are 5-turn and can still be hard to calibrate accurately, so if I build another one I’ll go for the 3224X range which are 12-turn, although inevitably more expensive.

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JanneI
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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by JanneI » Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:37 am

Trimmers..

This is always a choice between a) physical dimension, b) functionality, and c) price.
a) depends on what pots/switches/buttons/displays etc are used, PCB <-- mm? --> front panel.
b) single-turn, 5-turn, 12-turn, 20+ turn, which is "good enough for rock'n'roll" for that particular function.
c) obvious factor, especially when the unit has many trimmers.

So, in the spirit of SDIY, make substitutions where ever you feel like it. There are as many opinions as there are users, but many times there are some (good?) reasons for the component choices made. Our priority with JSI projects has been quality first, price second. If the component is good quality and cheap, great! Many times it's not the case.... my 5 cents.
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orbist
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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by orbist » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:30 am

Borogove wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:17 pm
I'm building the PCB-A version and have gotten to the "check power" step. Good news: the 5V and 3.3V LEDs are lit and test points show good voltage; D11 blinks. Bad news: the +/-12V LEDs are off and I'm seeing about +2V and -2.5V on the +/-12V rails. Voltage is good through the bridge rectifier (~12V in, ~10.5V out) and to the input of the DC converter; voltage is low at the DC converter's outputs. Converter isn't heating significantly over a minute or two of power-on.

Powered off, the continuity meter didn't beep when I checked the TPs; ohmmeter gives me 2.4Kohm between ground and -12, 2.0Kohm between ground and +12 (TP1, TP14, TP15), which seems suspect, but I'm seeing 5-6K between ground and the 3V and 5V rails so maybe it's not that weird?

I'm an intermediate level builder and I don't think I've done anything terribly stupid. I used a Traco TMR3-1223 instead of 1223E (unavailable from Mouser); the specs are extremely similar, but with slightly better ripple performance etc. on the non-E. Board arrived somewhat warped, but all the packaging was intact, so I assumed that was from the SMD reflow process and not a big concern. No obvious broken traces or anything like that. The only other possibly sketchy thing is that I used thermal paste intended for mounting heat sinks to PC CPUs; I'd have hoped it was non-conductive, but could it possibly be shorting something in the vicinity of the 3046?

Any suggestions for things to try?
Just finished my build and in the same state. Getting 3.3v and 5v fine, but just over 2v coming out the DC/DC on both + and -

Checked for shorts everywhere on the ICs. All orientated correctly etc.

Using a 1223E from digikey. So I don't think your problem is the non E version, but worth getting the right one.

I removed both U28 and U30 and the DC/DC is outputting 14v on both +/- with them removed. So happy that is working. Wondering if its these two, as I did have to get from Aliexpress as both mouser and digikey put of supply till next year.

But I did also use CPU paste and could be shorting the tempco resistors as quite a bit came out the tube... maybe I will remove the 3046 and clean it up, I guess I could try the continuity tests there again.

Usually with a drain like that on the VCC I've found an IC backwards or blown etc but all looks good here....

Any suggestions?

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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by JanneI » Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:06 pm

orbist wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:30 am
Any suggestions?
If you did solder the thermal pad under those ICs, then my guess is that your aliexpress REG ICs might be fake. There are so many fakes nowadays due to the IC shortage.
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orbist
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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by orbist » Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:28 pm

JanneI wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:06 pm
orbist wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:30 am
Any suggestions?
If you did solder the thermal pad under those ICs, then my guess is that your aliexpress REG ICs might be fake. There are so many fakes nowadays due to the IC shortage.
Yup, my current thinking too. Have placed backorder on mouser for them, so will give it a final check over and shelve till they turn up! Thanks

PS both tempco still reading 100R so no short there.

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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by Borogove » Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:32 pm

JanneI wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:27 pm
With Progue, do not substitute "Traco TMR3-1223 instead of 1223E". It's not identical part! We found out this while prototyping. Try to desolder and replace with the one in the BOM, TMR3-1223E.
I finally got around to replacing the 1223. 1223E works, I've got good -12 and +12 now. Thanks for the quick response!

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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by Borogove » Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:55 pm

Okay, got the whole unit working. Calibration was very straightforward. Great kit all around, I'm really impressed.

I have only three small improvements to suggest for the documentation:
- Since you're saying above "make substitutions where ever you feel like it" you should call out specifically that the TMR3-1223 won't work. The two units are so similar in specification that I'm still surprised this was a problem.
- Make explicit that the power supply can be center-pos or center-neg.
- Add a hint about the orientation of the LEDs for new builders. The photo was enough for me to go on, but the correspondence between square pad, flat side of silkscreen symbol, and short leg could be made explicit.

Again, this was a great build, and I'm only making the suggestions out of love. :love:

orbist
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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by orbist » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:41 am

Made some progress with my build. I think I may have either damaged something or still have a short somewhere.

I've removed all the IC, and did find some stray paste under a 4558 IC, after cleaning up and with just the 3001 (-12v) LDO in place I am getting -12 as expected. The Traco is outputting +14v and -14v .
If I measure I have continuity between -12 and 12 TPs which seems wrong. With the +12v LDO removed, I measure -12v on the pad for pin1... having removed and re attached several +12V LDOs at U28 I am wondering if I've somehow broken something in one of the pcb layers.

The 5v and 3.3v are fine and I connected to and flashed the firmware without issue.

So I guess, confirmation that I should not get continuity between +/- 12v TPs and certainly with nothing in U28 I wouldn't expect pin1 to be giving -12

Either I've got a short in one of the passives, or I have damaged a layer. Was thinking of cutting the trace between U28 pin1 and the capacitor and see if that stops continuity and will at least tell me if it's that or a short elsewhere, easy enough to connect pin1 and the cap after cutting the trace.

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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by JanneI » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:30 am

orbist:
Please check your 100nF bypass caps for all the IC. Those are between +12V rail and -12V rail, so those could be most the obvious reason the short.

Take out the LDO's, and do not solder them before you have no short between both LDO regs pin1's.

I do not recommend cutting traces before you have unsoldered all the other possible suspects.
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orbist
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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by orbist » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:30 pm

Perfect thanks, resolved. Must have been one of the 100nf on the rear, fluxed and reflowed them all and now have all V rails as expected! Now to solder all the ICs back on!

Thanks again. :yay:

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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by Horbach » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:31 pm

Hiya!
If I want to order the Alpha Potentiometer from mouser, can someone tell me which type I should order? The BOM is somewhat unhelpful, and I want to avoid to buy a bunch of pots that won't fit.
Thanks!

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JanneI
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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by JanneI » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:59 pm

https://smallbear-electronics.mybigcomm ... -pc-mount/
https://www.taydaelectronics.com/catalo ... =alpha+9mm

Mouser doesn't have those. If you substitute them for some other 9mm pot, make sure the shafts have threads, because otherwise, you can not mount the PCB to the panel.
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Horbach
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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by Horbach » Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:12 am

Great, thanks. I think i found them in a german shop!

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Kipling
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Re: PROGUE - Analog mono synth - Available!

Post by Kipling » Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:59 am



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