Is there an EG that has it all?

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JenniferG
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Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by JenniferG »

I need an EG to replace the Behringer 140. I can already tell after experimenting last night, that having individual CV control on the ADSR levels would be useful, so I'd like an EG that has that. I'd also like it to have inversion, retrig as well as end of Attack and end of Decay gates if possible. Basically I want every possible feature of an EG in one package. Does this exist?
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enzyme00
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by enzyme00 »

JenniferG wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:31 pm Basically I want every possible feature of an EG in one package. Does this exist?
Whether it exists or not, that made me laugh 😂
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transistorresistor
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by transistorresistor »

have a look at befaco.

https://www.befaco.org/vc-adsr/

also, Stages.
Last edited by transistorresistor on Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by liquid_bard »

In before someone says maths.
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by muleskinner »

liquid_bard wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:43 pm In before someone says maths.
Maths won't do all that. It won't do cv control of sustain level and it doesn't really have any retrig options either.

There's a lot more it will do though!
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by nios »

transistorresistor wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:37 pm befacos got you.

https://www.befaco.org/vc-adsr/
Instruo Ceis as well, which looks a lot like the Befaco one only with a slight edge in that it also can spit out triggers on the start of envelope segments out of a dedicated out. I have a Ceis (two actually) and found that CV over EG segments is most useful on sustain or decay (at least for me), for example on sustain you can impart dynamic volume such that if you hold a note it starts to flutter if you're LFO'ing it.. or if you use the end-of-decay gate to trigger an envelope that CVs the first one's sustain etc. Sometimes however you can put a lot of thought/work into patching it up and in the end can barely hear a difference or it's just not as impressive as you expected, so don't expect the world from CV'ing envelope segments.. it's nice to have but there's kind of a reason it's not a particularly in-demand thing (even though it does exist).

Also, Klavis Quadigy is a super-fancy EG in basically every other way besides CV over segments, of which it has 2 CV ins instead of 4 like the befaco/instruo.
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by vidret »

muleskinner wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:47 pm
liquid_bard wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:43 pm In before someone says maths.
Maths won't do all that. It won't do cv control of sustain level and it doesn't really have any retrig options either.

There's a lot more it will do though!
In before someone demonstrates a patch where it does :lol:

But yeah maths is not the play here.
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enzyme00
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by enzyme00 »

ALM Quaid Megaslope will get you close. It has end of stage and end of cycle triggers. No end of decay or attack specifically.
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by GuyaGuy »

Circuit Abbey ADSR Jr + Expansion
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by pugix »

For me the Qu-Bit Cascade pretty much does it all.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/qu-bit-electronix-cascade
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by nios »

I forgot to say, Rossum Control Forge is technically an EG (or maybe LFO if you want), one that operates on 8 segments where you can meticulously program each one - so you might say that that is in a way the 'ultimate envelope', but it doesn't have individual CV over all 8 segments so not in the same way a CV-per-segment ADSR is. The thing is kind of big and clunky for for what it does as well, over-engineered I'd perhaps say... I have one and have waffled on selling it many times but the "but there's nothing else exactly-like it" factor keeps it in my rack. I want a simpler version of Control Forge's idea (ideally with per-segment CVs) but it simply does not exist.
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by damase »

schippman dtg - more complex
verbos multi envelope - fast workflow
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by A Huge Growing Brain »

Stages?
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by A Huge Growing Brain »

muleskinner wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:47 pm
liquid_bard wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:43 pm In before someone says maths.
Maths won't do all that. It won't do cv control of sustain level and it doesn't really have any retrig options either.

There's a lot more it will do though!
I really need to lock myself away with Maths and learn all of the esoteric uses. Right now, I use it in practically everything but mostly as a double envelope module and sometimes take the SUM/INV/OR outputs and use it for modulation. It's one of those things that I definitely know I'm only scraping the surface of it.
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by JenniferG »

What do you guys think of the TipTop Audio Z4000 VC-EG? It has cv for each ADSR level, retrig, inversion. It doesn't have triggers for end of attack and and of decay, but if I need that I guess I can just use maths for that? I know I want individual level control of each of the ADSR and retrig for sure. I am looking at envelope generators and it looks like this z4000 is up there at the top of the list with respect to popularity. How does it sound compared to the Doepfer EG's Retrig? Can I get the same sounds with the Z4000? (I saw a demo on YouTube of the retrig feature of the popular doepfer eg -- I forget the model -- and it sounded awesome!)
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by CervelloAnalogico »

Xaoc Zadar will get you close, I've been incredibly happy with mine.
Last edited by CervelloAnalogico on Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by Blairio »

JenniferG wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:37 pm What do you guys think of the TipTop Audio Z4000 VC-EG? It has cv for each ADSR level, retrig, inversion. It doesn't have triggers for end of attack and and of decay, but if I need that I guess I can just use maths for that? I know I want individual level control of each of the ADSR and retrig for sure. I am looking at envelope generators and it looks like this z4000 is up there at the top of the list with respect to popularity. How does it sound compared to the Doepfer EG's Retrig? Can I get the same sounds with the Z4000? (I saw a demo on YouTube of the retrig feature of the popular doepfer eg -- I forget the model -- and it sounded awesome!)
The Z4000 is a very capable EG, especially when you factor in the built-in VCA, and adjustable bias.
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by liquid_bard »

vidret wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:00 pm
muleskinner wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:47 pm
liquid_bard wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:43 pm In before someone says maths.
Maths won't do all that. It won't do cv control of sustain level and it doesn't really have any retrig options either.

There's a lot more it will do though!
In before someone demonstrates a patch where it does :lol:

But yeah maths is not the play here.
It was a joke, but I'm pretty sure all you need to add is a vca to achieve it. ;)
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by JenniferG »

A Huge Growing Brain wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:16 pm Stages?
Watching a demo video of this on YouTube now. Wow this is pretty impressive! I have VCV rack so I can play with it there first, using the free scope in VCV as well. <3 VCV rack.

Last edited by JenniferG on Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by liquid_bard »

JenniferG wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:50 pm
A Huge Growing Brain wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:16 pm Stages?
Watching a demo video of this on YouTube now. Wow this is pretty impressive! I have VCV rack so I can play with it there first, using the free scope in VCV as well. <3 VCV rack.
It's discontinued, sold out, and was pretty popular. You'll have to hope for a clone (or pay through the nose on Reverb).
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by nostalghia »

I would check out the WMD Multimode Envelope (MME) with expander.
The main module is very flexible with multiple modes (types of envelopes), variable shape/curve per segment, three outputs (normal +8v, full swing and inverted w/2 options via jumper) and a manual gate trigger button in just 8hp.
The expander (6hp) adds CV inputs with attenuverters for attack, decay, sustain and release, 4 trigger outs that fire at the end of each segment and a retrigger input. Also has LED indicators for activity per segment.

Manual with operational details for MME and Expander: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0977/ ... 8609552331

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Demo video from WMD
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by JenniferG »

liquid_bard wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:52 pm It's discontinued, sold out, and was pretty popular. You'll have to hope for a clone (or pay through the nose on Reverb).
How feasible would it be to DIY a Stages clone? I see a PCB for it for $8. Would the individual compoents be expensive? Does it use SMD components? I've never soldered SMD myself; I am good at soldering non SMD stuff though.
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by Stopinterview »

sometimes I enter a thread and think "I know how to respond".

And then I read the posts and then I say "I could not have said it better myself".

WMD multimode envelope and ALM quaid megeslope.

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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by liquid_bard »

JenniferG wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:03 pm
liquid_bard wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:52 pm It's discontinued, sold out, and was pretty popular. You'll have to hope for a clone (or pay through the nose on Reverb).
How feasible would it be to DIY a Stages clone? I see a PCB for it for $8. Would the individual compoents be expensive? Does it use SMD components? I've never soldered SMD myself; I am good at soldering non SMD stuff though.
There's a discussion on it in the thread about mutable instruments shutting down. Someone said it might be harder than it looks for some firmware reason, but I really don't know what to make of it because I found it kind of counter-intuitive: https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewto ... s#p3801365
JenniferG
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Re: Is there an EG that has it all?

Post by JenniferG »

nostalghia wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:57 pm I would check out the WMD Multimode Envelope (MME) with expander.
The main module is very flexible with multiple modes (types of envelopes), variable shape/curve per segment, three outputs (normal +8v, full swing and inverted w/2 options via jumper) and a manual gate trigger button in just 8hp.
The expander (6hp) adds CV inputs with attenuverters for attack, decay, sustain and release, 4 trigger outs that fire at the end of each segment and a retrigger input. Also has LED indicators for activity per segment.

Manual with operational details for MME and Expander: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0977/ ... 8609552331

Modular Grid
MME: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/wmd-multimode-envelope
MME Exp: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/wmd-mme-exp

Demo video from WMD
Wow this thing is impressive! Does everything I asked for :). Thanks I'll look into it.
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