Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

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tdallas
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by tdallas »

Voice sample through Delay1. Externally clocked to allow for longer delay times, at the cost of fidelity.


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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by micowata »

Really like how this module is already challenging perceptions and encouraging discussion. Comparing it to other BBDs is only fair haha IMHO. Also, would love a creatively oriented conversation about delays as all I know about this subject is the vastness of my own ignorance.

Been digging for n audio interface recently and mainly discovered the split between audio engineers and musicians on that subject. I feel the same is going on here, as we can safely assume that « delay » means something quite different in both domains.

Semantics 🤙🏻
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drowld
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by drowld »

tdallas wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:47 pm
Voice sample through Delay1. Externally clocked to allow for longer delay times, at the cost of fidelity.
That's why i was asking about delay time
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by Keltie »

Powerdwarf wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 9:59 am
Lurker wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 9:56 am
Powerdwarf wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 8:55 am for example, the fact that a photographic film might get pushed further from its predefined value doesnt market it as 3200iso film if its actually 400 iso.
actually, thats exactly what happens, film speeds are recommendations, not the base iso of the film itself, in fact, most common films sold as 3200 iso today have a base iso of around 800 / 1000 but are designed to do well when pushed

either way, 3200 iso or 800 iso, theyre still both films
50ms or 500ms, its still a delay
yeah 2ms delay is still a delay. where is the line of common sense then, why there are words such as chorus and flanger if its all delays? reverb is also a delay, ddnt you know that? lets call everything a delay then
I understand it like this: phaser>chorus>flange>echo.

If the delay is less than an audio cycle, phaser. If it’s inside the haas limit at about 40 ms, chorus. If it’s on the haas borderline but not yet a slap back, flange. Longer than that, so that you have two or more audible events, delay, and commonly slap back if it’s short with no / little feedback, and echo if the times are longer. In all cases, modulation and feedback are important of course.

But it’s a bit of a moving target. Im not sure this module is for me, and maybe it’s not anything entirely new, but it’s a take on playing with the shorter delay times inside and around the haas limit, with joranalogues usual stellar engineering, and lots of control, while avoiding clock noise at short times, but the option to go longer if you can live with it.

Seems like a really solid module to me.
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by Wavtekt »

1 to 50ms is kinda limiting as a delay ...

It is more of an echo / flanger if that's the case.

You need min. 1-1.5s delay for musical notes.

Kinda disappointed, but BBD chips just have a lot of physical limitations unless you use multiple BBD chips in different delay time.

On the other hand, PT2399 delay has a wider range and no clock whining ...
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by guitargyro »

Wondering why more delays out there haven’t attempted this take. It’s bold, but definitely super useful whether it’s labeled a delay, a chorus, or a flange. Regardless, it’s a sure buy for me at some point.
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by transistorresistor »

alot of the comments in this thread really dont anticipate a DELAY 2 in the future, which would be very on brand.
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by Kosmikos »

I can’t wait for this, I am so excited, this is exactly something I was hoping Joranalogue would do. Day 1 purchase from me! :tu: :hyper:
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by Illwiggle »

Perhaps the intent behind this delay is to be more of a sound-design/shaping tool similar to the Verbos Multi Delay, or the Serge WAD, Haible SOST.... but from the above soundcloud demos it sounds like it does a pretty decent echo, as well as the shorter range stuff. I will likely buy it, as I am a delay freak :hail:
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by natureclubcassettes »

Powerdwarf wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 9:41 am
micowata wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 9:06 am
Powerdwarf wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 8:55 am do you think 50ms is enough to call a bbd module “delay”. in my humble opinion this is flanger range.
Also, there is no possibility to change delay times with cv. only with clock aka triggers but it takes time until it catches up and i find it really fiddly to understand how to dial things i want with it.
What about the T3 input?

Personally Sarajewo sounds amazing to me.
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by Black_Materia »

I've tried it, pretty cool. It doesn't really do echo's, but goes into flanging/slapback doubling territory.
It's also great for karplus-strong like sounds, there's even a trigger input which activates a noise burst circuit.

I'm sure i haven't scratched the surface of what it could do. The idea of using it in a conjunction with a digital delay is cool, you could get chorused delay's that way.

I will say it is super-super clean. might as well be digital, but of course digital can't be modulated in audiorate as well. So it doesn't have a typical BBD character which is mostly the imperfections deteriorating the sound.
I did not try to offset the clock into noisier territory though, should've thought of that, but it was a short moment in a busy room.

But it's pretty good with a ton of accessibilty you don't often get. I might get one, even though the rack is full and the wallet empty.
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by gregtronic »

Oh man....this is just the worst news. I have 4 CG Products Delay 1022s, 2 Feedback Multi-Dimensions and 2 Xaoc Sarajewos....and I fear I'm about to be adding 2-4 of these to the collection. I have a real addiction.
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by drowld »

gregtronic wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:01 am Oh man....this is just the worst news. I have 4 CG Products Delay 1022s, 2 Feedback Multi-Dimensions and 2 Xaoc Sarajewos....and I fear I'm about to be adding 2-4 of these to the collection. I have a real addiction.
Haha damn what a setup. I was rdy to get another 1022 but i can wait for this one. Flavors are differents which is always nice
I hope it demos at superbooth
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drxcm
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by drxcm »

I might have missed this, but is this using an off the shelf BBD chip (like the coolaudio / xvive ones) or something proprietary?
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by Powerdwarf »

drxcm wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 3:27 am I might have missed this, but is this using an off the shelf BBD chip (like the coolaudio / xvive ones) or something proprietary?
i doubt hes making his own parts.
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vidret
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by vidret »

Did I miss it or is there a maximum delay time using trigger/tap tempo input posted here somewhere?
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by funksy »

Maximum using the internal clock is 50ms, but you can override that with your own clock at the "Time" input. Probably no actual maximum, but signal will continue to degrade with longer delays.
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by luchog »

funksy wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 11:17 am Maximum using the internal clock is 50ms, but you can override that with your own clock at the "Time" input. Probably no actual maximum, but signal will continue to degrade with longer delays.
With a BBD, there is certainly a practical limit, based on the number of stages and how well the stage capacitors can hold their charge.

This one is rather shorter than I would like for an echo delay, but it does sound pretty good in the KS/Chorus/Flanger range.
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by feelingthin »

I'm more interested in driving it with a faster clock into sub 1ms times for higher notes.
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by BaloErets »

I'm very curious to hear examples of the degradation when clocking it externally at a rate over the max external clock. I like me some degradation :hyper:
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by lisa »

BaloErets wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 8:40 pm I'm very curious to hear examples of the degradation when clocking it externally at a rate over the max external clock. I like me some degradation :hyper:
tdallas wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:47 pm
Voice sample through Delay1. Externally clocked to allow for longer delay times, at the cost of fidelity.


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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by Jumbuktu »

Powerdwarf wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:18 pm there are long bbd delays in pedal world, lots of. how eurorack is different, idk.
Like what? Seriously, I want to know. I have delay pedals that have digital imitations of BBD delays, but I didn't know there were actually any long delay analogue pedals.
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by lisa »

Jumbuktu wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 1:01 am
Powerdwarf wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:18 pm there are long bbd delays in pedal world, lots of. how eurorack is different, idk.
Like what? Seriously, I want to know. I have delay pedals that have digital imitations of BBD delays, but I didn't know there were actually any long delay analogue pedals.
DOD Rubberneck, 1.5 seconds. Granted, the really long delay times sound very degraded and dirty.

Good pedal, in any case. Loads of functionality at a low price.
New track! Our first release in a year and a half. Mostly based on the TINRS Fenix IV. :godzilla:

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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by cackland »

gc3
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Re: Joranalogue DELAY 1 - Split-Phase Bucket Brigade Delay Line

Post by gc3 »

Jumbuktu wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 1:01 am
Powerdwarf wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:18 pm there are long bbd delays in pedal world, lots of. how eurorack is different, idk.
Like what? Seriously, I want to know.
Best pedal option IMO is relatively new AMT ADG-1, runs MN3005s for proper voltage swing, designed by Hawker, who did lots of the Moogerfoogers. Sounds absolutely glorious. The base edition (can do 17ms-350mswith 1xBBD or 35ms-700ms with 2xBBDs from the knob, up to ~900ms with CV/exp) is getting restocked on May 20th, so heads up if anybody wants one. The special edition (restock TBD) has 3xBBDs for a "long mode" of 50ms-1.1s, up to 1.35s with CV/exp, as well as a compounding send/return.

The XAOC Sarajewo is great for long echos, and obviously much more controllable than any echo, but it does unfortunately have some slew when changing delay times, I think somebody else in this thread mentioned. I suspect this is due to digital control over its internal HSVCO, but it might just be a design choice--I've been meaning to bug XAOC about it, since it means that you can't get a really crisp pitch shift effect.

The DELAY 1 seems like an excellent option for shorter lines, with ingredients from the Doepfer design and the CG 1022. Assuming he's using MN3004s and not MN3204s, I will definitely try to get one, maybe two. Interested to see if its HSVCO can easily drive the Doepfers.
Keltie wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:23 pm I understand it like this: phaser>chorus>flange>echo.

If the delay is less than an audio cycle, phaser. If it’s inside the haas limit at about 40 ms, chorus. If it’s on the haas borderline but not yet a slap back, flange. Longer than that, so that you have two or more audible events, delay
Just wanted to respectfully chime in on this. Flange times are actually shorter than chorus times: flange is typically quoted as around 0.5 to 15ms, with chorus starting when the comb filter effect goes out of spectrum and changes into perceived pitch modulation and ending around the haas limit of ~40 (as you say). Also, while you're right to think of phasers as a type of very short delay, it's done using the group delay of a series of tuned all-pass filters, which means that the notches aren't linked to the overtone series--it's a different frequency response that you don't get by simply shortening a flanger's delay time. (Shortening a flanger to ranges below ~0.5ms, which requires pretty specialized setups to do in analog, produces a very crystalline, hollow-sounding comb filter effect that to my ear hits somewhat different than the typical flanger range, but it's still not a phaser...)
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