XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

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starthief
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by starthief »

BLogic12 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:17 pm The Sofia demo really didn’t do much or excite me much personally, but really interested in that freq shifter for sure.
I find the sounds in the video a mixed bag, with some I would definitely not use. But the good moments are really good IMHO, and I feel like there's a lot of potential here. I I definitely want to hear more sound demos, as well as at least a little explanation of what's going on with this module.

I feel like, as with many oscillators, it can be harsh and unpleasant and nasty, or boring, or... really fantastic. It's all in finding the sweet spots and/or the right modulation and usage. I feel the same way about Odessa, Shapeshifter, etc.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by BLogic12 »

starthief wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:31 pm
BLogic12 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:17 pm The Sofia demo really didn’t do much or excite me much personally, but really interested in that freq shifter for sure.
I find the sounds in the video a mixed bag, with some I would definitely not use. But the good moments are really good IMHO, and I feel like there's a lot of potential here. I I definitely want to hear more sound demos, as well as at least a little explanation of what's going on with this module.

I feel like, as with many oscillators, it can be harsh and unpleasant and nasty, or boring, or... really fantastic. It's all in finding the sweet spots and/or the right modulation and usage. I feel the same way about Odessa, Shapeshifter, etc.
For sure. I’m just a tough sell these days, as my purchasing has slowed and have no interest in growing my system, therefore any addition means selling/removing something, and I have it so fine tuned for my needs at this point it takes a lot of justifying and consideration and evaluations for any changes now.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by Hi5 »

Well, good thing there are even more options to feed my freq shifter obsession. Can't have too many honestly.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by starthief »

BLogic12 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:17 pm For sure. I’m just a tough sell these days, as my purchasing has slowed and have no interest in growing my system, therefore any addition means selling/removing something, and I have it so fine tuned for my needs at this point it takes a lot of justifying and consideration and evaluations for any changes now.
Makes sense, I'm sort of at that point too. If I got Sofia it would have to displace Odessa, or EnOsc + Manis, or Akemie's Castle. Those are all great, but I also feel like I could switch them out for something equally interesting, if the demos are convincing enough.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by Hovercraft »

Hard to make a judgment about Sofia from a short video, but the front panel is intriguing. Six outputs with maybe two for cv or functions (impulse a/b)?
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by texturerama »

nocontact wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:59 pm the frequency shifter has got to be digital, right?
My extremely un-technical hunch is that it's most likely digital given the shallow depth as compared to the substantial PCB stacks of the Doepfer A-126-2 and the Doc Sketchy Freak shift.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by MossGarden »

texturerama wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:09 pm
nocontact wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:59 pm the frequency shifter has got to be digital, right?
My extremely un-technical hunch is that it's most likely digital given the shallow depth as compared to the substantial PCB stacks of the Doepfer A-126-2 and the Doc Sketchy Freak shift.

Take into account that Xaoc are into SMD production, the Doepfer is thru-hole components, I think you can easily do it if it’s all SMD.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by texturerama »

MossGarden wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:52 pm
texturerama wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:09 pm
nocontact wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:59 pm the frequency shifter has got to be digital, right?
My extremely un-technical hunch is that it's most likely digital given the shallow depth as compared to the substantial PCB stacks of the Doepfer A-126-2 and the Doc Sketchy Freak shift.

Take into account that Xaoc are into SMD production, the Doepfer is thru-hole components, I think you can easily do it if it’s all SMD.
Like I said, extremely un-technical :hihi:
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by Jumbuktu »

MossGarden wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:52 pm
texturerama wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:09 pm
nocontact wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:59 pm the frequency shifter has got to be digital, right?
My extremely un-technical hunch is that it's most likely digital given the shallow depth as compared to the substantial PCB stacks of the Doepfer A-126-2 and the Doc Sketchy Freak shift.
Take into account that Xaoc are into SMD production, the Doepfer is thru-hole components, I think you can easily do it if it’s all SMD.
Not so sure. There are a lot of components in a true analogue frequency shifter, even with SMD it's not going to fit in 10hp - but again, not a technical guru so I could be wrong.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by CiDE »

Jumbuktu wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 7:25 pm
MossGarden wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:52 pm
texturerama wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:09 pm
nocontact wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:59 pm the frequency shifter has got to be digital, right?
My extremely un-technical hunch is that it's most likely digital given the shallow depth as compared to the substantial PCB stacks of the Doepfer A-126-2 and the Doc Sketchy Freak shift.
Take into account that Xaoc are into SMD production, the Doepfer is thru-hole components, I think you can easily do it if it’s all SMD.
Not so sure. There are a lot of components in a true analogue frequency shifter, even with SMD it's not going to fit in 10hp - but again, not a technical guru so I could be wrong.
Cwejman did it mono in 14hp and just one PCB. The other one is just for protection or something and has no real components.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by feelingthin »

The Doepfer Freq Shifter is pretty amazing. I'm curious how this one is.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by Daisuk »

Fuuuck, you guys just keep on killing it. I want both of these! Nice.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by nios »

I'd want to hear more of Sofia to really try to evaluate it as it looks like there are a lot of timbres buried in it somewhere/somehow. I really appreciate a dedicated innovative effort to make an exotic oscillator, however I'm not quite enamored with it on first listen (incidentally I felt the exact same way about Odessa). It does have some pleasing sounds in there clearly but I'm not sure how wide that sweet spot palette is so would need to hear someone go over it in-depth.

Looking at it again, it now strikes me as somewhat like an analog Hertz Donut ... so, it's a sine modulated by two other possible sines. Or squares, looking at the panel. However it's definitely not a donut either, as for starters its carrier is not a normal sine, then there are some vague options which is where the curiosity comes in. Warp may be a wavefolder I think, as it did sound much like a folder sweep at the beginning and that makes perfect sense to add to sines, and each modulator has one. If that's the case then it's capable of much-crazier sounds than they teased actually. Impulse is I'm guessing, a pluck function (like on the Frap Brenso maybe). Damp.. maybe like a VCA index for each modulator?

As for Koszalin that's much more instantly-interesting to me and I have not much to say other than I want it.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by NewSynthOnTheBlock »

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?
WHY?

I was so lucky XAOC stayed away from this bad quality flimsy wobbly tiny knobs in the past and now....at least only on the FM Inputs.
Sofia will be a nice piece of gear though but PLEASE XAOC don't use those knobs anymore in upcoming modules. They sucks as hell! Erica Synths Pico line, 2HP most Mutable Instruments and more are all gone wobbly and loosing "twist-resistant" over time with this mini pots. Its ridiculous, Eurorack is tiny enough. Most wigglers do not need it even more tiny like a baby toy. I see manufactors attemp to squeeze as much functions as possoble in less HP as possible, but build quality suffers so badly from this. cheers!
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by starthief »

I've got 59 of those mini-pots in my system and not one has "gone wobbly", not even on my 6 year old Rings.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by tdallas »

starthief wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 5:47 am I've got 59 of those mini-pots in my system and not one has "gone wobbly", not even on my 6 year old Rings.
I guess this is luck ;) I can confirm the loss of haptic resistance of those trimmer pots on some of my modules. Not on Rings but for example on a Beads and a Quad VCA. On the other hand this can also affect some of the metal shaft pots. One of my FX AID and a Versio have a wobbly potentiometer and I don't twist them like a madman :despair: probably it also depends on how sensitive someone is about such things.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by Kosmikos »

starthief wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 5:47 am I've got 59 of those mini-pots in my system and not one has "gone wobbly", not even on my 6 year old Rings.
Mine too, none of my tall trimmers have gone wobbly, they all already were. ;)

Not mentioning that some were rubbing the panel and hard to operate on a few new modules that I got. Often the rotation axes is not straight even if the knob is aligned when installed.

I do find it annoying that you can still find these on such a large panel as Sofia. Alpha pots don’t use any more space on the board, and you can also use small knobs that takes little space on the panel, so there isn’t any good reason not to.
The feeling of quality of a small pot compared to a tall trimmer is infinitely better, I can really see that on my DIY modules.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by MossGarden »

Kosmikos wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:55 am
starthief wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 5:47 am I've got 59 of those mini-pots in my system and not one has "gone wobbly", not even on my 6 year old Rings.
so there isn’t any good reason not to
It's incredibly difficult if impossible to claim that.

It could be anything from keeping the overall unit price below a certain threshold, a penny saved across hundreds of thousands of components adds up eventually. It could even be making sure they have enough parts to fulfil demand long term at a time where BOMs are getting increasingly more challenging to obtain. There will be a reason they wen't with those pots and from their end of the deal, whatever it was, was a good reason. No module is perfect.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by Wavtekt »

Need spec and manual, not just demo!
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by skinpop »



Also a couple of new Timiszoara videos posted in the last few days on the same channel.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by cloudleft »

What does Koszalin’s Density control do?
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by starthief »

cloudleft wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:44 pm What does Koszalin’s Density control do?
My guess is, it's crossfading in delayed copies of the signal into the feedback loop to sort of "fill in" for a smoother barberpole sort of effect.

E.g. if the shift is 2Hz, it takes 500ms to cycle once. So turning up Density a little will fade in a 250ms delay. Then 125, 62.5, 31.25 etc. as you turn it up more. If you watch the official Koszalin video from about 55 seconds in, you can hear a sort of metallic ringing on the cymbals when Density is turned up.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by transistorresistor »

MossGarden wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 8:28 am
Kosmikos wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:55 am
starthief wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 5:47 am I've got 59 of those mini-pots in my system and not one has "gone wobbly", not even on my 6 year old Rings.
so there isn’t any good reason not to
It's incredibly difficult if impossible to claim that.

It could be anything from keeping the overall unit price below a certain threshold, a penny saved across hundreds of thousands of components adds up eventually. It could even be making sure they have enough parts to fulfil demand long term at a time where BOMs are getting increasingly more challenging to obtain. There will be a reason they wen't with those pots and from their end of the deal, whatever it was, was a good reason. No module is perfect.
Its not a penny. It's the omission of a knob, the omission of the labor installing that knob, and then the cost difference of the pot itself. The only real argument to be made for using one of these trimmers, beyond saving the panel space for the knob is possibly cramming more writing into the silk screening. The rest of it is all budget driven, for everyone.
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Re: XAOC Sofia oscillator and Koszalin frequency shifter

Post by hawkfuzz »

Sofia has the most interesting waveshaping options I've heard in an analog oscillator.
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