ES-5 double trouble

[gallafry]

Hi
I am rather new to this and have a slight issue with my ES-5. Using latest version Silent Way and Ableton Live 10 either on Windows 10 or MacOs Catalina and driven by either an ES3-mk4 or an ES-9 I seem to need double the value to drive it than I would expect. I have ES-5 on channel 1, a gate expander on 2 and an MIDI expander on 3. There is a consistent pattern of activation. If I send a 1 (or base note using MIDI) the 8th gate illuminates on the channel above (ie send to ES-5 get gate 8 on EXS-GT8, send to the EXS-GT8 the either 8th MIDI stream lights). I f I send a 2 the first gate is activated and thereafter I need double the number all the time. As a result, the final gate (which would require 512) won't light (except as described above). It's not the end of the world. Ultimately I can access everything except the 8th gate on the ES-5 itself but it would be nice to get it working. As an aside I have a 4ms 40 power supply and I get this problem when everything else is disconnected. Thanks!

[gran_syth]

Could this be an issue with your samplerate setting? Are you on either 44.1 or 48kHz?

[andybizarre]

Try to provide a constant gate to output 1 of your ES5 while the audio engine is running. Or try the workaround mentioned in this thread: https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158305

[gallafry]

Thanks gran_syth and andybizarre. I am using 48kHz as at least earlier versions of the MIDI expander seemed to prefer this from what I understand. I will try the andybizarre's ideas later today and report back. (I am using the MIDI version of SW5 controller. Not sure if that makes a difference.) Thanks again

[andybizarre]

There is an issue about Ableton's audio engine being not bit-perfect at lowest volumes. The special encoding of the ES5 audio stream needs exactly that. While I was using Ableton, I abused the said gate on output 1 to keep the audiostream and therefore the proper encoding "alive" and got consisting results. With Bitwig I never had those problems. This also affects the MIDI expander, as it's decoded from the audio stream as well.

[gallafry]

Thanks so much. I tried providing the constant gate to output 1 with the audio engine running without joy. But I will try and work around and also see how it works in Bitwig. (Have been waiting for an excuse to get the full version!)

[gallafry]

Thanks again. I have tried the Ableton work around that Os suggested that you kindly pointed me to (https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158305) with no joy and with Bitwig I am getting a real mash up of lights coming on similar to that I observed with VCV Rack (although I understand there are some problems with the arithmetic there). I will tinker a bit more and see if I can borrow another ES-5 just to check there isn't a hardware problem.

[andybizarre]

Odd. Did you check the basics (Silent Way on stereo channel, pan centered, all DAW & DSP channels at unity) ? Did you rule out grounding issues of your case(s)?

Also, you could asks the mods to move this thread to the Expert Sleepers subforum. Os and others might chime in. Additionally, could you provide screenshots of your DAW, interface settings and Silent Way?

[gallafry]

Thanks again and sorry for slow reply!
I wondered about ground loops. I can't hear any hum and the problem persists with the laptop on battery and the power pack for the modular being the only thing plugged in. May be there's noise on the PSU but short of swapping it around I am not sure what else to do. I don't have a scope to look at it.
I have attached a pdf with a couple of screen shots. The first is the SW setting (channel 1 output = 1) with an inset showing that it's the 8th LED on the ESX-8GT which is on channel 2 that is lighting up. With channel 1 output = 2 (not shown) the first LED on the ES-5 lights. The second shot shows the audio settings on Ableton with an inset of the connections between the ES-9 and ES-5. Not sure that helps. I will try and move to the ES subforum (I hadn't appreciated it existed so something else I have learned, thanks!).

es5_mw.pdf

pics of ES5 and Ableton Live / SW ES5 controller

(2.02 MiB) Downloaded 6 times

[gallafry]

A bit of an update. Exactly the same problem with a Mac Book Pro and using Silent Way AU version so not a specific VST issue. Also (excitingly!) seems to work perfectly from within VCV Rack 2. So not an ES5 problem.

[gallafry]

Further update in case anyone else ever has this challenge. No problems running ES-5 controller from within Reaper. So I must have something odd going on with Live but curiously consistent between two laptops with two OS's

[DJMaytag]

It sounds like you have a level problem in Ableton. You’re off by one bit, which means there’s a level difference of up to 6dB of audio signal going out to the ES-5. It sounds like it’s definitely a setting in Ableton.

[DJMaytag]

Do you have the SPAN plugin by Voxengo, by chance?

[gallafry]

Thanks, I hadn't come across SPAN. Is there a way I can use it to test for the level problem? I will also see if I can find some setting(s) in Ableton to tweak to resolve the problem. It would certainly be helpful to have the option to use Live.

[DJMaytag]

It can be useful to determine what frequencies and levels the plugins are operating at. It’s a hell of a lot easier to determine what’s going on with the ES-5 Controller plugins than the ESX-CV combiners.