Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

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dave999z
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by dave999z »

metamorphmuses wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:27 am
dave999z wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:17 am
stopmakingsense wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:06 am
WesCREAM wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:32 am I have an order in at Perfect Circuit for the 245t, they could only say "hopefully before the holidays"
Patience but excited to finally bring some Buchla into my setup!
Analogue Haven has it in stock right now.
How would you ever find it on their site?
Is that a joke?

New Gear > TipTop > Buchla Eurorack 200 Series > 245t

https://www.analoguehaven.com/tiptop-audio/245t/
My bad. I went to their TipTop page and didn’t see it because their picture of the 245t is tiny so it was kind of hidden between two other TipTop modules.
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by metamorphmuses »

dave999z wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:30 am
metamorphmuses wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:27 am
dave999z wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:17 am
stopmakingsense wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:06 am
WesCREAM wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:32 am I have an order in at Perfect Circuit for the 245t, they could only say "hopefully before the holidays"
Patience but excited to finally bring some Buchla into my setup!
Analogue Haven has it in stock right now.
How would you ever find it on their site?
Is that a joke?

New Gear > TipTop > Buchla Eurorack 200 Series > 245t

https://www.analoguehaven.com/tiptop-audio/245t/
My bad. I went to their TipTop page and didn’t see it because their picture of the 245t is tiny so it was kind of hidden between two other TipTop modules.
Ah, I see. I guess I am accustomed to their site. Admittedly, it is kind of old-fashioned in terms of site design.
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by soundular »

topherc wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:17 am I'm thinking of jumping onto the Tiptop Buchla bandwagon but was interested in existing owners experiences with compatibility with other Euro modules. I've read there might be some differences with trigger types and cv ranges... In practice how much does this affect integration into a larger euro system? For example what percentage of other modules won't be triggered by the quad function generator's end of cycle triggers (I'd be particularly interested in hearing about Make Noise compatibility)? Are there other things that might not work?

I'd also like to know what sort of pots are used on the modules? i.e T18, D-shaft, smooth round ones?

Thanks!
I think you'll find that the tip tip buchla isn't proprietary and plays well with others. Take a look at what modules you have and the requirements that are needed, for example voltage range. Looking at the manual for the 281, it can send 10V. Also, just doing a random search on youtube of the 281t, you'll see some videos with a variety of modules being used. But if I were to give an exact percentage, it would be 74.39% ;)

Maybe the question I would be asking yourself is: Are you looking for one function generator to use in your system, or are you ok having a few different ones? Also, what are you looking for in your FG? There are pros and cons to anything, so maybe figure out what you're hoping for with the FG (Size, ease of use, menu diving etc.) Just some things to consider!
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Spanningtree »

erstlaub wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:30 am So a little more experimentation with the gate outs on the top of the 245.
Taking a look this morning I'm observing:

Using steps 1,3, and 5:
1.jpeg
1.jpeg (113.15 KiB) Viewed 1155 times
That steps 5 and 1 gates are running close to each other:
2.jpeg
2.jpeg (88.24 KiB) Viewed 1155 times
Going with steps 1,2,3, and 4:
3.jpeg
3.jpeg (100.57 KiB) Viewed 1155 times
The gate lengths are super close (trace four is mislabeled), woops):
4.jpeg
4.jpeg (93.8 KiB) Viewed 1155 times
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Spanningtree »

erstlaub wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:30 am So a little more experimentation with the gate outs on the top of the 245.
More observations:

Stacking steps 1 and 2:
5.jpeg
5.jpeg (112.7 KiB) Viewed 1140 times
Pretty much merges the gates into one long gate:
6.jpeg
6.jpeg (88.74 KiB) Viewed 1140 times
Stacking steps 1,3, and 5:
7.jpeg
7.jpeg (115.19 KiB) Viewed 1140 times
Merges gates 5 and 1:
8.jpeg
8.jpeg (90.11 KiB) Viewed 1140 times
With the pulse rate cranked up:
9.jpeg
9.jpeg (85.62 KiB) Viewed 1140 times
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Spanningtree »

erstlaub wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:30 am So a little more experimentation with the gate outs on the top of the 245.
Possible solution:

ANDing the gate and pulse outputs of the 245t yielded triggers that behaved as expected:

Setup using a Plog, the cables run off to the right since my DATA is in a different rack:
10.jpeg
Yielded:
11.jpeg
11.jpeg (135.24 KiB) Viewed 1123 times
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by erstlaub »

Yep, that seems right. If you can be bothered/have a module to hand, could you take a look at several steps actively mixed through another module on the scope to check if it shows discrete individual concurrent steps?

Definitely a shame it needs additional modules though.
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Gordon Cole
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Gordon Cole »

Peake wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:42 am The vintage module allows for stacking of the individual stage pulse outs. The Roman clones didn't and require mods or they were legato when you stack them.
Thinking this is what is going on here. Perhaps they used Roman's work as the basis for the 245t?
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Spanningtree »

erstlaub wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:19 am Yep, that seems right. If you can be bothered/have a module to hand, could you take a look at several steps actively mixed through another module on the scope to check if it shows discrete individual concurrent steps?

Definitely a shame it needs additional modules though.
I'm not sure if this is what are requesting but...

I tried mixing through the quadratt but that yielded the same merged gates as above.

Running three steps through the minimix:
001.jpeg
Looks like this:
002.jpeg
That is steps 1,2, and 3. I am not sure what the negative artifact is, it is present for even a single step. Perhaps someone can chime in on that.
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Peake »

Gordon Cole wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:40 am
Peake wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:42 am The vintage module allows for stacking of the individual stage pulse outs. The Roman clones didn't and require mods or they were legato when you stack them.
Thinking this is what is going on here. Perhaps they used Roman's work as the basis for the 245t?
Dave Brown found and published a mod to fix this in the Roman clones a while ago...I don't know.
What are they doing, in the dream house
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Gordon Cole
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Gordon Cole »

Peake wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:57 am Dave Brown found and published a mod to fix this in the Roman clones a while ago...I don't know.
Slightly off topic but one thing I am really missing on the 245t is the two outputs for each step. Impossible to create two different patterns like in this video:

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noises
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by noises »

erstlaub wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:30 am So a little more experimentation with the gate outs on the top of the 245. Experimented both with very short envelopes and trig outs from 281 and also the stacked output straight into both the regular and strike inputs of an optomix.
Maybe this is related... I was trying to add a delay after step 5, so ran the trig out to the 281t and took that envelope, inverted it, and ran it to a VCA with the 245t's pulse in going through the VCA. The trig out on step 5 happens before the 245t sequencer goes to the next step since the sequence will freeze on step 4 until the inverted envelope is finished on the VCA and then go to step 5.
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by nightbeach »

I think that if the 245t had eight steps instead of five it would be the perfect sequencer for me. Love the patch-programmability but having to string up a sequential switch just to get an eight-step sequence isn't ideal. Oh well...
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by soundular »

nightbeach wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:16 pm I think that if the 245t had eight steps instead of five it would be the perfect sequencer for me. Love the patch-programmability but having to string up a sequential switch just to get an eight-step sequence isn't ideal. Oh well...
Wouldn't be the buchla 245 if it did that.
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by axm311 »

soundular wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:47 am
topherc wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:17 am I'm thinking of jumping onto the Tiptop Buchla bandwagon but was interested in existing owners experiences with compatibility with other Euro modules. I've read there might be some differences with trigger types and cv ranges... In practice how much does this affect integration into a larger euro system? For example what percentage of other modules won't be triggered by the quad function generator's end of cycle triggers (I'd be particularly interested in hearing about Make Noise compatibility)? Are there other things that might not work?

I'd also like to know what sort of pots are used on the modules? i.e T18, D-shaft, smooth round ones?

Thanks!
I think you'll find that the tip tip buchla isn't proprietary and plays well with others. Take a look at what modules you have and the requirements that are needed, for example voltage range. Looking at the manual for the 281, it can send 10V. Also, just doing a random search on youtube of the 281t, you'll see some videos with a variety of modules being used. But if I were to give an exact percentage, it would be 74.39%
Anecdotally, my 281t trigger out does not trigger every module I have consistently. I think it didn’t ping the strike of Optomix or trigger quadrax (can’t recall which exactly).

I don’t have the 245t but some of the consecutive step use cases sound to me a bit like the Verbos sequence selector (which I also don’t have but have researched on here quite a bit). Maybe there is some shared DNA there
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by clusterchord »

so i really like the stage select buttons that Sputnik 5-Step Voltage Source (and Dnipro Metamorph) have. it plays well into scenario where 245 is used as preset storage for a complex oscillator, with cv addressing.


so, is there a manual trig/button module out there, that could pair with the 245t ? or is DIY the only way ?

thus far, closest i've found is a 4hp module but only 4 trig button, each with a switch btwn momentary and latch:

https://www.sfeo.fr/pushr.html

Image


as for the number of stages, i admit i am drawn to the quirkiness of number five ever since listening to Music Easel. not that a hypothetical 246t (16x4) wouldn't be insta-buy for me. i do hope they make it some day. i mean, if you have built a 245 already, how hard can it be to make a 246 ? its just moarr of the same. at least i hope so.. :mrgreen:

topherc wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:17 am I'd also like to know what sort of pots are used on the modules? i.e T18, D-shaft, smooth round ones?
trying to find this out as well.

have a stash of Alpha Rogans here for the 200 series look, but also some D-shaft Selcos with blue top, for Buchla 200e / Sputnik look. depending where in my system i drop the 245..
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by BLogic12 »

soundular wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:28 pm
nightbeach wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:16 pm I think that if the 245t had eight steps instead of five it would be the perfect sequencer for me. Love the patch-programmability but having to string up a sequential switch just to get an eight-step sequence isn't ideal. Oh well...
Wouldn't be the buchla 245 if it did that.
Maybe nightbeach should check out the behringer 960 (moog sequencer clone).
Seriously! I’ve been interested in checking it out for a while.
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Gordon Cole »

clusterchord wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:30 pm
so, is there a manual trig/button module out there, that could pair with the 245t ? or is DIY the only way ?

https://www.landscape.fm/allflesh
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Spanningtree »

BLogic12 wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:45 pm
soundular wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:28 pm
nightbeach wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:16 pm I think that if the 245t had eight steps instead of five it would be the perfect sequencer for me. Love the patch-programmability but having to string up a sequential switch just to get an eight-step sequence isn't ideal. Oh well...
Wouldn't be the buchla 245 if it did that.
Maybe nightbeach should check out the behringer 960 (moog sequencer clone).
Seriously! I’ve been interested in checking it out for a while.
:tu:

Agree'd, the price is awesome as well.
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Cfp »

There’s also the great Tokyo Tape Music Center Sequential Voltage Source Model 123 Buchla 100 clone
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by topherc »

axm311 wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:50 pm
soundular wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:47 am
topherc wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:17 am I'm thinking of jumping onto the Tiptop Buchla bandwagon but was interested in existing owners experiences with compatibility with other Euro modules. I've read there might be some differences with trigger types and cv ranges... In practice how much does this affect integration into a larger euro system? For example what percentage of other modules won't be triggered by the quad function generator's end of cycle triggers (I'd be particularly interested in hearing about Make Noise compatibility)? Are there other things that might not work?

I'd also like to know what sort of pots are used on the modules? i.e T18, D-shaft, smooth round ones?

Thanks!
I think you'll find that the tip tip buchla isn't proprietary and plays well with others. Take a look at what modules you have and the requirements that are needed, for example voltage range. Looking at the manual for the 281, it can send 10V. Also, just doing a random search on youtube of the 281t, you'll see some videos with a variety of modules being used. But if I were to give an exact percentage, it would be 74.39%
Anecdotally, my 281t trigger out does not trigger every module I have consistently. I think it didn’t ping the strike of Optomix or trigger quadrax (can’t recall which exactly).

I don’t have the 245t but some of the consecutive step use cases sound to me a bit like the Verbos sequence selector (which I also don’t have but have researched on here quite a bit). Maybe there is some shared DNA there
Thanks. Bit of a bummer about Optomix but I'm sure I'll survive!
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by topherc »

clusterchord wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:30 pm
topherc wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:17 am I'd also like to know what sort of pots are used on the modules? i.e T18, D-shaft, smooth round ones?
trying to find this out as well.

have a stash of Alpha Rogans here for the 200 series look, but also some D-shaft Selcos with blue top, for Buchla 200e / Sputnik look. depending where in my system i drop the 245..
Yes I have a load of Selcos as well (D-Shaft and also T18) and also want to go for the 200e look! Can anyone help us with what the pots are?
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by Brave »

topherc wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:44 am
clusterchord wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:30 pm
topherc wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:17 am I'd also like to know what sort of pots are used on the modules? i.e T18, D-shaft, smooth round ones?
trying to find this out as well.

have a stash of Alpha Rogans here for the 200 series look, but also some D-shaft Selcos with blue top, for Buchla 200e / Sputnik look. depending where in my system i drop the 245..
Yes I have a load of Selcos as well (D-Shaft and also T18) and also want to go for the 200e look! Can anyone help us with what the pots are?
They appear to be standard D, fairly short. Not ideal for RB67 but better with some tissue paper to close the gap (thanks Junglechrist for the tip).
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by topherc »

Brave wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:14 am
topherc wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:44 am
clusterchord wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:30 pm
topherc wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:17 am I'd also like to know what sort of pots are used on the modules? i.e T18, D-shaft, smooth round ones?
trying to find this out as well.

have a stash of Alpha Rogans here for the 200 series look, but also some D-shaft Selcos with blue top, for Buchla 200e / Sputnik look. depending where in my system i drop the 245..
Yes I have a load of Selcos as well (D-Shaft and also T18) and also want to go for the 200e look! Can anyone help us with what the pots are?
They appear to be standard D, fairly short. Not ideal for RB67 but better with some tissue paper to close the gap (thanks Junglechrist for the tip).
Brilliant, Thank you!
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Re: Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

Post by exper »

Maybe I haven't tried too hard to be honest, but to me the knobs are really hard to get off. And since It looks like there are no bolts holding the pot to the panel, I'm worried about pulling too hard and damaging the module.

Would love to swap the knobs with D-Shaft Selcos.
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