Buchla 200 in Euro format (Tiptop)

[TheSynth]

really interesting.
Hah, US people gonna be going after the EU version...

Right, one of each...

Exactly!

[Triglav]

Elevator Sound's latest newsletter had something pretty interesting to say about the 292t:-

"You may have seen the sad news about the Tiptop x Buchla 292t LPG stock. Due to a regulated component within the EU/UK we won't be able to get any of the vactrol modules here. However they are working on a compliant version using similar hardware to the beloved and incredible sounding Rabid Elephant Natural Gate. More info on this to come!"

Having read the entire "favorite LPG" thread and seeing how many people cited the Natural Gate, that's a pretty positive bit of news for us EU/UK peeps.

That’s super interesting! It might even be preferable over the vactrol version for many people!
Hopefully the non vactrol one will be available in the us too as another option. It will be interesting to see how the two versions compare side by side.

Here's a comparison I've made a while ago:
Buchla is to the left, NG to the right. I matched the NG decay as closely as I could by ear. At these shorter decays I slightly prefer the vactrol version, but the NG blows it out of the water with the longer decays.

[BLogic12]

Elevator Sound's latest newsletter had something pretty interesting to say about the 292t:-

"You may have seen the sad news about the Tiptop x Buchla 292t LPG stock. Due to a regulated component within the EU/UK we won't be able to get any of the vactrol modules here. However they are working on a compliant version using similar hardware to the beloved and incredible sounding Rabid Elephant Natural Gate. More info on this to come!"

Having read the entire "favorite LPG" thread and seeing how many people cited the Natural Gate, that's a pretty positive bit of news for us EU/UK peeps.

That’s super interesting! It might even be preferable over the vactrol version for many people!
Hopefully the non vactrol one will be available in the us too as another option. It will be interesting to see how the two versions compare side by side.

Here's a comparison I've made a while ago:
Buchla is to the left, NG to the right. I matched the NG decay as closely as I could by ear. At these shorter decays I slightly prefer the vactrol version, but the NG blows it out of the water with the longer decays.

I meant comparison between the 292t vactrol version and 292t non vactrol version (once they are out) but thanks! I had a listen.
Actually I’m really surprised how similar they can sound! What response type were you using on natural gate? That drastically changes the sound when using the hit input. And obviously the natural gate is capable of a much larger range than the 292 in terms of response, you were just trying to match the 292 here.
I love how the NG sounds on the sharp response type (top switch position) for really short decays. Not like the 292, but really nice sounding. Super sharp and crisp yet organic.

[Triglav]

I know, just thought it would be an interesting data point. I think I ended up using the "balanced" response (switch down), but I'm not sure, it was a while ago.

[Ebotronix]

I don't like the simulants of the LPG's, neither Natural Gate nor any other LPG's without factroles.
I have a lot of LPG's in my racks and I can't understand why there are no LPG's without the toxic cadmium.

[luketeaford]

really interesting.
Hah, US people gonna be going after the EU version...

Right, one of each...

... I'll stick with two of the good sounding USA versions, but if anyone has potable water maybe we can work out a trade

[Spanningtree]

really interesting.
Hah, US people gonna be going after the EU version...

Right, one of each...

... I'll stick with two of the good sounding USA versions, but if anyone has potable water maybe we can work out a trade

Funny but not, pretty depressing events in your neck of the woods of late. Here in southern NV we'll trade LPGs for any water. Hopefully this recent rash of storms will make a dent in the drought.

Back on track, I'd need to hear the fauxtrol version before purchasing.

[luketeaford]

Yeah, for real I don't think vactrols are all they're cracked up to be. The convenience of a strike input is awesome, but it can "bleed" or ring too long or some people don't like the short rings. Audio rate modulation doesn't work out, damping can be subtle. Sometimes the individual vactrol character is more perceptible depending on the shape and pitch of the input.

Vactrols are kind of a mess (coming from someone who has one or more of each Make Noise module with vactrols). It's quick to patch up something cool sounding, but hard to really hone it in how you want.

[abluenautilus]

I agree the SSG is hard to dial in. The natural gate on the other hand just always sounds beautiful, you cant get it to sound bad!
The SSG HUGE range of sound and thats what makes it so hard to dial in. To get it the most natural and typical lpg sounding I keep the decay and freq sliders relatively high. I also have to attenuate the trig going into excite to only about 25% of its full level- this rounds off the attack just enough. then lastly, adding a touch of Q(resonance) just adds a beautiful tone over the whole thing.
the SSG is a tricky balancing act between decay and frequency- very touchy and very particular sweet spots. sometimes it seems like the freq slider has more of an impact on decay than the decay slider does (which is interesting)!

I have nothing to add to this but wanted to say that I have experience with both of these modules and this is the perfect description of them.

[analogbrainsurgeon]

Oh ok, so now no one wants vactrols. Got it. Tiptop does all this work getting the 292t ready, makes/finds some sweet new vsctrols for a proper OG module reissue, and now everyone wants to wait for the vactrol-less version. Makes sense.

[luketeaford]

Oh ok, so now no one wants vactrols. Got it. Tiptop does all this work getting the 292t ready, makes/finds some sweet new vsctrols for a proper OG module reissue, and now everyone wants to wait for the vactrol-less version. Makes sense.

Oh sorry just to be clear I genuinely am interested in the vactrol 292t and like my other vactrol modules-- just that there is a sort of selection bias if you hear only the times where the vactrol character is an asset and not a hassle. I am thinking of KSS' signature, "chase magic sound, not magic parts": the magic is in the sound and it can be done without vactrols.

[analogbrainsurgeon]

Oh ok, so now no one wants vactrols. Got it. Tiptop does all this work getting the 292t ready, makes/finds some sweet new vsctrols for a proper OG module reissue, and now everyone wants to wait for the vactrol-less version. Makes sense.

Oh sorry just to be clear I genuinely am interested in the vactrol 292t and like my other vactrol modules-- just that there is a sort of selection bias if you hear only the times where the vactrol character is an asset and not a hassle. I am thinking of KSS' signature, "chase magic sound, not magic parts": the magic is in the sound and it can be done without vactrols.

Hard disagree. Everyone worth their patch cables knows vactrols, ESPECIALLY Buchla vactrols, are in fact the secret sauce/magic beans/watermelon sugar. These are THE magic parts we've been waiting for, for nearly 50 years! This near instant dismissal from the rebellious arms of the forum of the upcoming US OG 1st run magic vactrol lpg is akin to blasphemy of modular as a format. There. I said it. Because it needed to be said.


You're all welcome.

[analogbrainsurgeon]

To further illustrate my point:

How many people want a vactrol-less QMMG?




Actually, hey @makenoise can we do that? Can you do that? Is that something you've thought about doing? A QMMG that could be frequently produced that doesn't need vactrols... there's a can of worms...

[Ebolatone]

Ah, but vactrols are magic components. The dimming of the light component results in the light-sensitive resistor producing a curve resembling that preferred by the ear. That there are so many modules mimic'ing its character speaks volumes, especially in that people are seeking to expand upon the original. If there are more complex options now in existence it's thanks to the original being very interesting.

[Jumbuktu]

As another take on the Vactrol replacement question, NLC uses a lightproof box made out of headers to enclose (presumably) a LED and a LDR between two PCBs. I have the dual LPG version. It works fine, if you like a long decay to your LPG / VCA . If you want a snappy response you are probably not going to like it so much.

[luketeaford]

Ah, but vactrols are magic components. The dimming of the light component results in the light-sensitive resistor producing a curve resembling that preferred by the ear. That there are so many modules mimic'ing its character speaks volumes, especially in that people are seeking to expand upon the original. If there are more complex options now in existence it's thanks to the original being very interesting.

Isn’t that evidence supporting the “magic sound” point of view? Same sound, different parts. But also there is at least a small marketing component to vactrol I think. Not suggesting vactrols aren’t a cool design but that emulations tend to overlook the weird response part of vactrols in favor of the vaguely acoustic sounding amp/timbral curve.

At risk of swerving off-topic, what I’m saying is everyone hypes vactrols but a lot of the time the patch is a sine wave into a plucked lpg. I would rather ping a filter to get that sound and cv resonance to control decay. What’s fun to me about 200t is having the system as an instrument with its own quirks to explore— so the vactrols appeal to me in because of their characteristics whether good or bad for a given patch.

[Ebolatone]

The same response can be mimic'd with more complex circuitry but for low parts count and high performance it's hard to beat a proper vactrol. The magic sound is specifically due to the component and IIRC it's much more than "vaguely" better than a linear ramp. Few of us have also had access to the original types used in the vintage Buchla modules; the 5C3 most commonly used in clones is similar but perhaps not exactly the same.

Vactrol 5c6.png (23.29 KiB) Viewed 972 times

Odd bit of history...the earliest gain cells in the Teletronix LA2a compressor/limiter were supposedly made using a combination of chemicals including the highly toxic flourine, long since banned in manufacture. The earliest cells may also be the best for whatever reason.

[Triglav]

Why do you think the 5C6 was the original? The 291 and 292B schem specifies 2C3 (which seems to be the same as the 5C3 in a different enclosure), the 266 has 5C3 and 5C3/2, most just say "VACTEC" or nothing.

[Sysagent]

Oh ok, so now no one wants vactrols. Got it. Tiptop does all this work getting the 292t ready, makes/finds some sweet new vsctrols for a proper OG module reissue, and now everyone wants to wait for the vactrol-less version. Makes sense.

I Would love them!

But... I Live in the UK...

[soundular]

Oh ok, so now no one wants vactrols. Got it. Tiptop does all this work getting the 292t ready, makes/finds some sweet new vsctrols for a proper OG module reissue, and now everyone wants to wait for the vactrol-less version. Makes sense.

Oh sorry just to be clear I genuinely am interested in the vactrol 292t and like my other vactrol modules-- just that there is a sort of selection bias if you hear only the times where the vactrol character is an asset and not a hassle. I am thinking of KSS' signature, "chase magic sound, not magic parts": the magic is in the sound and it can be done without vactrols.

Hard disagree. Everyone worth their patch cables knows vactrols, ESPECIALLY Buchla vactrols, are in fact the secret sauce/magic beans/watermelon sugar. These are THE magic parts we've been waiting for, for nearly 50 years! This near instant dismissal from the rebellious arms of the forum of the upcoming US OG 1st run magic vactrol lpg is akin to blasphemy of modular as a format. There. I said it. Because it needed to be said.


You're all welcome.

If I plant it, will it grow more 292's or just gold records?

Kidding aside, I agree that the vactrols are something that tiptop has been working on all this time. At the end of the day, trying out both is going to be the only way to know how they sound.

[soundular]

Oh ok, so now no one wants vactrols. Got it. Tiptop does all this work getting the 292t ready, makes/finds some sweet new vsctrols for a proper OG module reissue, and now everyone wants to wait for the vactrol-less version. Makes sense.

Oh sorry just to be clear I genuinely am interested in the vactrol 292t and like my other vactrol modules-- just that there is a sort of selection bias if you hear only the times where the vactrol character is an asset and not a hassle. I am thinking of KSS' signature, "chase magic sound, not magic parts": the magic is in the sound and it can be done without vactrols.

Hard disagree. Everyone worth their patch cables knows vactrols, ESPECIALLY Buchla vactrols, are in fact the secret sauce/magic beans/watermelon sugar. These are THE magic parts we've been waiting for, for nearly 50 years! This near instant dismissal from the rebellious arms of the forum of the upcoming US OG 1st run magic vactrol lpg is akin to blasphemy of modular as a format. There. I said it. Because it needed to be said.


You're all welcome.

If I plant it, will it grow more 292's or just gold records?

Kidding aside, I agree that the vactrols are something that tiptop has been working on all this time. At the end of the day, trying out both is going to be the only way to know how they sound.

[Ebolatone]

Why do you think the 5C6 was the original? The 291 and 292B schem specifies 2C3, the 266 has 5C3 and 5C3/2, most just say "VACTEC" or nothing.

I know the 2C3 was original. The image is for general illustrative purposes, was the easiest one to download and post (I'm not spending all my time on this very bad argument).

Note the non-linear slope more akin to the ear's response than any linear line. Also remember vactrols have memory and that also effects response, it's not static, which adds yet another dimension to a component providing interesting results.

[analogbrainsurgeon]

Oh ok, so now no one wants vactrols. Got it. Tiptop does all this work getting the 292t ready, makes/finds some sweet new vsctrols for a proper OG module reissue, and now everyone wants to wait for the vactrol-less version. Makes sense.

I Would love them!

But... I Live in the UK...

True, just a joke That said, I'm sure there's a freedom loving US distributor that will turn a blind eye to the cadmium embargo... the onus is on the importer anyway... RoHS the dice!

[analogbrainsurgeon]

Oh ok, so now no one wants vactrols. Got it. Tiptop does all this work getting the 292t ready, makes/finds some sweet new vsctrols for a proper OG module reissue, and now everyone wants to wait for the vactrol-less version. Makes sense.

Oh sorry just to be clear I genuinely am interested in the vactrol 292t and like my other vactrol modules-- just that there is a sort of selection bias if you hear only the times where the vactrol character is an asset and not a hassle. I am thinking of KSS' signature, "chase magic sound, not magic parts": the magic is in the sound and it can be done without vactrols.

Hard disagree. Everyone worth their patch cables knows vactrols, ESPECIALLY Buchla vactrols, are in fact the secret sauce/magic beans/watermelon sugar. These are THE magic parts we've been waiting for, for nearly 50 years! This near instant dismissal from the rebellious arms of the forum of the upcoming US OG 1st run magic vactrol lpg is akin to blasphemy of modular as a format. There. I said it. Because it needed to be said.


You're all welcome.

If I plant it, will it grow more 292's or just gold records?

Kidding aside, I agree that the vactrols are something that tiptop has been working on all this time. At the end of the day, trying out both is going to be the only way to know how they sound.

It's guaranteed to give your blips and bloops an organic, analog hi-fi sheen found previously only in university basements on the west coast of the United States. These underground laboratories perfected the ping. Now, for the first time in over half a century, those magic beans can be yours! The 292t has been carefully tuned so that the chakras of each channel are in perfect alignment. When you switch on and plug in to the 292t you will feel a warmth as light beams from your own chakra outlets, and isn't that what gold records are made of?

[d42kn355]

I want both. lol