You want to buy a ____? Don't.

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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

You are welcome! That's a great compilation: I expected it to be more laidback and ethereal (like airy, shimmery synths, arps, and harmonies), but it also has some bass-heavy bangers which really add up to the pedal-pushing experience of burning down gasoline as you go. :D

Excess air pressure holding down..? May be some local reference I do not catch, is this a metaphor for sort of producing more conventional-sounding music state is known for, or? Do you mean jazz rock or country? Just a wild guess, I'm intrigued to know now. :bump:

The compilation in itself is pretty fantastic, sometimes you can have a “local phenom” music scene or label that is nothing but pretentious, but here quality of music speaks for itself and is pretty outstanding even if judged on a global scale and not as some native folk of interest to a pinch of nostalgic-feeling townspeople and goatee-having oppidans whose pride originates from being primarily established by the suburban acculturation exterior posters and clandestine protocols.

:cheesy: :homer: :singer:
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by vizor81 »

I want a UDO Super 6 but I’m waiting for Igorrr to replicate it in the FX Aid. 👍
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

@vizor81
Haha, for the first couple secs thought you wanted me (named after birth Igor too) to think up the FX Aid patch emulating some effect of UDO... Now I can safely calm down, after I realized this rather was feature–and not patch–request, but still fun confusion-causing post, nice!

:yay:
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by vizor81 »

You Igors are great - no matter how it is spelled!

Eternally thankful 🙏
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Post by radiokoala »

I appreciate it!! :hug:

Igorrr is also a baroque breakcore psycho-genius from France who blends circa-1517 or 1591 orchestrations with XX and XXI century synths and drum breaks. Presumably most people on here must have heard of him at least once or stumbled upon somewhere looking up experimental idm and stuff; on the other hand I think it is a slightly less bell-in-a-head-ringing name than, say, Venetian Snares even if they both explore somewhat similar sonic aesthetic, with all those busy and spastic uptempo arrangements and the such.

:chug:
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by bmot »

radiokoala wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:03 am Igorrr is also a baroque breakcore psycho-genius from France who blends circa-1517 or 1591 orchestrations with XX and XXI century synths and drum breaks.
Yes, I'd forgotten about Igorrr (was that enough R's? I forget!). Seen him live a few times here in Germany, bonkers, fun, well crafted breaks.
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

@bmot
Have you mastered the robo-baritone yet, b.t.w.? :) I posted some additional extra tips there in a thread.
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by Phitar »

radiokoala wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:11 am Excess air pressure holding down..? May be some local reference I do not catch, is this a metaphor for sort of producing more conventional-sounding music state is known for, or? Do you mean jazz rock or country? Just a wild guess, I'm intrigued to know now. :bump:
Denver is known as the Mile High City. Higher altitude = lower air pressure. I think the higher air pressure here in the Virginia lowlands is placing too much stress on my brain. But that could just be my wife.... :lol: Sorry to confuse.
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by bmot »

radiokoala wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:02 am @bmot
Have you mastered the robo-baritone yet, b.t.w.? :) I posted some additional extra tips there in a thread.
It's my modest aim for this week. My son was off school, sick, most of last week so i didn't get much time alone.
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Post by radiokoala »

Hope he's better now! Wish him quick recovery.
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by Kosmikos »

I want to buy a Super Sawtor.
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by KSS »

Kosmikos wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:55 pm I want to buy a Super Sawtor.
Look at the manual or Doepfer page for their A137-2 module. Not the A-137, which is a wavefolder. The A-137-2 block diagram there will show you how to patch a super sawtor from a comparator and mixer..
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

SuperSaw with Gate Delays & Seq. S.
Take 4 VCOs and tune them to output the same frequency (or note, like A0). Patch the Square off VCO1 to a pair of gate delays (using mult or separate outputs like master out and sqr or sqr and pwm). Delay them slightly, with slightly longer gate delay for the second signal. Now patch the initial square wave to VCO2, Delayed #1 to VCO3, and #2 to VCO4. What you have done now is effectively offset the 0° phase of a pair of oscillators, so all three are slightly out-of-phase with each other but still perfectly synced to a master oscillator. If we do our best at painting with symbols to illustrate the result of it, in the most stoner caveman-time ASCII art possible, it will be something like |\|\|\ at the start of the waveform instead of a single tooth – yes, precisely what you imagine supersaw to look like always throughout its existence.

Next up, choose your path: either mix all three VCOs with a mixer (where you can also attenuate them to play each at different level, for added harmonics and edgier sound) or address them with a mixiplexer or sequential switch. Cycling through them with an audio rate signal will again produce more (harsh or ear-pleasing) overtones, by bouncing back and forth you can actually produce way more “teeth” than you thought were possible with this technique. (Before: :goo:; after: :hihi:).

Important note from a 100 y.o. modular kung-fu master proofreads these all on a voluntary basis: Frequency of a square wave going to a seq. switch Gate/Trigger In must, of course, be well above of a master sync oscillator, else you'll just go through all three waves sequentially and not produce a complex signal out of three.

Last – a second before I finish my tech-speech – I'd like to point out the incredibly unobvious yet extrasmart pupupun (or pun, for short) in a previous paragraph. A 100 y.o. modular, get me? Like in: A-100 format compatible! Like, Eurorack! So both doepfer a-100 master and a 100 years old! :cloud: :party: I would probably go as far as nominate this for the “a-100 pun of the year”, if it wasn't so pathetically meaningless and humanity-not-improving (not that it can be improved, either way! :spin:).

So I'll just leave you with this modular tip, a C-grade pun, and your own inner demons – have a good tea party and fruitful patching session.

PS. “An hundred”, OK, but don't you dare ruin my pun!!! I know English, deal? Calm down. :twisted:
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by Kosmikos »

KSS wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:45 pm
Kosmikos wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:55 pm I want to buy a Super Sawtor.
Look at the manual or Doepfer page for their A137-2 module. Not the A-137, which is a wavefolder. The A-137-2 block diagram there will show you how to patch a super sawtor from a comparator and mixer..
PWM square added to a sawtooth to change its phase! Interesting discovery, i must try that. Thanks KSS :tu:
https://doepfer.de/a1372.
radiokoala wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:16 am SuperSaw with Gate Delays & Seq. S.
Take 4 VCOs and tune them to output the same frequency (or note, like A0). Patch the Square off VCO1 to a pair of gate delays (using mult or separate outputs like master out and sqr or sqr and pwm). Delay them slightly, with slightly longer gate delay for the second signal. Now patch the initial square wave to VCO2, Delayed #1 to VCO3, and #2 to VCO4. What you have done now is effectively offset the 0° phase of a pair of oscillators, so all three are slightly out-of-phase with each other but still perfectly synced to a master oscillator. If we do our best at painting with symbols to illustrate the result of it, in the most stoner caveman-time ASCII art possible, it will be something like |\|\|\ at the start of the waveform instead of a single tooth – yes, precisely what you imagine supersaw to look like always throughout its existence.

Next up, choose your path: either mix all three VCOs with a mixer (where you can also attenuate them to play each at different level, for added harmonics and edgier sound) or address them with a mixiplexer or sequential switch. Cycling through them with an audio rate signal will again produce more (harsh or ear-pleasing) overtones, by bouncing back and forth you can actually produce way more “teeth” than you thought were possible with this technique. (Before: :goo:; after: :hihi:).

Important note from a 100 y.o. modular kung-fu master proofreads these all on a voluntary basis: Frequency of a square wave going to a seq. switch Gate/Trigger In must, of course, be well above of a master sync oscillator, else you'll just go through all three waves sequentially and not produce a complex signal out of three.

Last – a second before I finish my tech-speech – I'd like to point out the incredibly unobvious yet extrasmart pupupun (or pun, for short) in a previous paragraph. A 100 y.o. modular, get me? Like in: A-100 format compatible! Like, Eurorack! So both doepfer a-100 master and a 100 years old! :cloud: :party: I would probably go as far as nominate this for the “a-100 pun of the year”, if it wasn't so pathetically meaningless and humanity-not-improving (not that it can be improved, either way! :spin:).

So I'll just leave you with this modular tip, a C-grade pun, and your own inner demons – have a good tea party and fruitful patching session.

PS. “An hundred”, OK, but don't you dare ruin my pun!!! I know English, deal? Calm down. :twisted:
That sounds like some good patching fun, I might have to reorganise a few modules to try this. Thanks for the enlightening post :hyper:
Now I might need to buy more VCOs ;)
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

Chaotic Wavefolder (Banned in 139 Countries!) :foul:
Patch the oscillator to I1 of a sequential switch. Mult the same wave to inverter, inverted copy to I2. Set your seq.s. to 2 In – 1 Out operation (or patch + and - to I3 & I4 once again). Trigger the switch with audio rate–and faster than oscillator frequency–signal to start “drawing” more periodic waveforms within a single duty cycle, harmonically enriching the signal.

For different results attenuate the “-” signal or use differently scaled into-each-of-the-four-inputs waves altogether, e.g. 1:1 +, 0.5 -, 2x +, 1:1 -.

You can also process either of those with slew generators, wave rectifiers, saturators etc, as well as be using different waves altogether, like Square for + and Sine for -. The more diverse you get, the more you increase the fun factor (up to tenfold and X infinity).

For starters, you can try something as simple as +Sine, -Tri -, +Srq, and -Saw and then get more advanced with scaling, shifting (asymmetrically clipping) and other forms of signal processing like wavefolding (why not? true and “OG” folded wave into a wannabe-folder, all sorts of fun outcome waiting to happen! :hyper:).

PS. Excuse me while I go to the patent bureau now.

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Post by radiokoala »

Kosmikos wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:10 am That sounds like some good patching fun, I might have to reorganise a few modules to try this. Thanks for the enlightening post :hyper:
Now I might need to buy more VCOs ;)
Glad you dig – my pleasure! Post the symphony that emerges if you dare to press “record”.

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Post by radiokoala »

“Legit” Wavefolder without Wavefolder :party: :cloud: :drums:
Take the CV (pitch sequence) and offset it several octaves up (+1V and above). Initial CV to VCO¹, shifted one to VCO². Ideally tune both the same (like A note) and then send both to a sequential switch. We normally talk sines here, but we can achieve wavefolded triangles, saws, ramps, and even (!) squares.

Crucial thing to do next is scaling VCO² wave prior to it going into a switch, I speak 0.5x gain or lower for normal applications. If you look at a wavefolded wave, you'll see that the highest frequency portion of it is sits in the center at relatively low of an amplitude. Which is why we do that.

After this, let's use a VCO² to also control the sequential switch. Patch a pulse out or pwm to [2x/../8x Clock Mult and then] Gate In of seq. switch. If you have a VC Tempo divider/mult like 4ms PEG, you can control the frequency at which switching between initial and folded wave occurs by addressing the mult/div with CV, hence the clock mult in-between suggestion. Optionally we can employ an aux oscillator (VCO³) for that, which will give us the advantage of having CV control over periodicity of folded portions within the Single Cycle, too – all rather easily by changing its pitch (with staircase waveforms, sequences and any other signals – or, of course, accomplishing that manually by tweaking the COARSE FREQ knob). :homer:

In case you really went through the trouble of tuning both VCOs to the same note (same octave or not; A1 and A5 is entirely cool), you also get yourself an advantage of producing more even harmonics (sort of additive synth or organ tonewheel-like) in your waveforms by using the whole-volt DC offsets, like 1/2/3/4/5/6V etc.

As such, the added-up part of your resulting waveform – its VCO²-derived of blacksmith forge bellows-looking like “folds” – will play at mathematically and musically meaningful (x2/x3 etc) frequency compared to the base tone, similar to quick arpeggiated octaves.

If, on the contrary, you want to emphasize the odd harmonics more, just set the pitch of Second VCO to STRICT WHATEVER and be done with it! And – returning to the first paragraph, – even to obtain even (Especially Good Puns, Volume MCMLCXVIII :mrgreen:) harmonics, it's not at all obligatory to use offset (especially if you don't have one), since you can just use the pitch knob of a second one as an offset and tune it up five octaves or the like.

Important! By changing the PW on aux VCO (see: paragraph # 3), you get the control over START PHASE at which folding occurs (!). So far, from what is known to me, no commercial wavefolder gives you such a fine grade of control as the cleverly engineered patch of mine that you read through at the moment. (In case I missed something, living in a cave, I encourage manufacturers to advertise their end-all be-all wavefolders that do all this and more – like, fold squares and phase-select – right here in this thread 8-)).

I'll end this all up with saying I feel pretty proud with not only providing a way to do X without Y here (like, emulate feature of a certain module) but also pushing it into the space from stratosphere so much so that to provide the added functionality going far beyond most of the commercially available designs.

PS. If phase-start et al has been part of wavefolders since the Earth creation, I apologize. It's been couple of years since I last saw a wavefolder on pic, let alone in the flesh, so may be giving out the wrong facts driven by self-satisfied pride and ego... :drinking:

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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by pieter »

Oh, wow I am going to try to patch that wavefolder tonight!

Unfortunately, I do not have a (working) oscilloscope. Can you tell us how to patch that?
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

@pieter
Nothing easier than that: just get one at Google Play or App Store. I have a bunch on my Android tablet. They would measure you no voltages, but for good ol' “dance of the lightning strike” eye candy they work like charm, a complete steal at just $0.000 each! To patch one, simply attenuate the modular signal and plug into the phone using some TRRS cable/splitter (if you want to monitor a separare track) or use the built-in mic for sound-to-picture conversion of the entire mix. :beer:

As far as the last patch I shared (last and semi-last, called “chaotic”), arming up an app like that would surefire help being aware of what's going on in the electric innards and inwards. I def recommend this add-on most wholeheartedly for more immersive of a dive!!

PS. Funny, I remember having mentioned a scope once in today's writings, but CTRL+F ends up displaying only your post. Can you quote a bit where I did? I think, I may have defined a scope as optional in there. Sure enough not a must to replicate the more folded wave-obtaining method or (s).

PPS. Cool how your userpic color-matches the most face-revealing live concert photo of mine in my signature. 1 to 1! :party:

PPPS. #randomfacts My dad is Peter too. :D

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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by KSS »

pieter wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:57 am Unfortunately, I do not have a (working) oscilloscope. Can you tell us how to patch that?
Get yourself a bunch of Div6 VM modules. Or other bargraph display modules. Install them in a bank side by side.
Feed your signal into the signal input of a VC-Switch, with its outputs sent to the VMs. Use a ramp wave into the CV of the VC switch. Voila! Oscope!

Or just follow radiokoala's less expensive advice. ;)
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by Kosmikos »

Back to supersaw, I’ve done a quick test with my Minimod square output instead of using a comparator, but realised it had the wrong phase to start with. However using an inverter I then managed to proceed in adding/subtracting it to a mult of the saw output, and ended up with two saws, with the phase controllable from the PWM knob. Sounds very thick, not bad for a start.
Next step I need to see whether I can add a third one using a comparator. Then after that i’m running out of utilities, and will have to shuffle a few modules around to try the delayed sync method. :hyper:
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by Kosmikos »

Ok, turns out I don’t have a comparator. But I do have an Erica Synth EF (envelope follower) with a gate output. After a quick module swap and lots of head scratching, I have managed to extract a third saw from a single Minimod VCO.
Et voilà :party: :
B82255B1-869E-40A7-90E6-7B57BFEDEBED.jpeg
Modules involved in this patch:
- One AJH Minimod VCO for first saw and square.
- MI Kinks for the phase inversion of the first square.
- Joranalogue Add2 for summing duties, second saw and final mix.
- MI Links for mults.
- Intellijel Buffered Mult for more mults.
- Erica Synth EF for a second (phased) square from the second saw.
- Intellijel Quadratt for offset and phasing/summing the EF square into a third saw.

Therefore I will now go buy the Doepfer 137-2 that KSS suggested (Super Sawtor is kind of rare), so that I can get more saws and my utilities back :mrgreen:
Once again this thread has been quite the expensive thread to follow despite its title :yay:
:moneyburn:

Unfortunately my DIY sequential switch is still awaiting some SMD components that I can’t seem to find anywhere at the moment, but I will also try Radiokoala’s delay trigger technique once I make a decent recording of this current patch.
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by rayultine »

you want to have free time to try all of radiokaola's magic tricks ____ ? You don't.
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Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

Quasi-Phase Modulation Drones
Take a Square Wave and gate delay it three times, roughly achieving 90°, 180°, and 270° phase shift (oscilloscope is your friend). Perhaps most conveniently this will be done with SSF Propagate, Malekko Quad Gate Delay, or two A-162s. Up next, patch all four signals (original @0° + three delayed) to a CV'able multiplexer like Toppobrillo Mixiplexer, Mutable Instruments Frames or a sequential switch with CV addressing (Erica Pico Seqs). Using a fairly regular (“normie”) square with about 50% PW you can sort of emulate PWM, reaching up to 100% duty cycles or, conversely, small pulse widths (resulting in nasal and woodwind or flute-like tones), whereas with narrow PW waves like п_____, this will yield FM-like results (e.g. п_п_п_ out of it will be the whole 3 octaves higher).

Sure enough, you can use this technique to enliven or variegate (not to be confused with a malekko module! :sb:) your trigger sequences, optionally leaving one of the mixiplexer/seq.s. inputs empty, to let your drum breaks breathe a little. :drums:

Extra tip: Use a fairly unexpensive quad LPG like a pair of Takaab LPG2s (radiokoala-awarded “best bang for the buck” modular grammy-oscar! :party:) or Make Noise QMMG ( :mrgreen: ) to slew the delayed (or all, if your VCO doesn't have sine out) squares and sort of getting quasi-phasemod of sine waves, much like taking the four Intellijel Dr. Octature outputs and sending the whole bunch into a mixiplexer or switch like we did.

I also encourage you to try other waves at the input one, like saw or complex vco out, all for the sake of more drastic timbral modulation and the added buzzy nastiness to test your neighbours' nerves with. :twisted:

You can tell this is not “true” phase modulation, as it stands, because you can not arbitrarily reach degrees like 107.7° etc (anything in between of 0° to 360°), but since I never legally advertised it as such (see: quasi! :razz:) I care not at the slightest for any possible fees and imprisonments as detemined by Cape of Good Hope or Saint Bernard's jurisdictions. :lisa:

Additionally, since no human can actually hear difference in 7995 Hz signal phase-shifted to 87 or 90 degrees and back with audio rate LFOs (and say whether it was 87 or 90), I take such a liberty as giving entirely zero “F” or “S” things that are normally given in relation to things worth giving an eff of ass (like, you can trade an ass for a mule, but zero reasons to give away an animal in this mere case, only if to someone like me as a genuine thank-you gesture for writing all this! :hihi:).

Last but not least, trig in on a sequential switch will also work fine for this, albeit less predictably than a periodic wave like LFO into CV addressing. (With Pico SEQS you can, in fact, use both simultaneously for more dramatic PM).

Have a good life and day. 8-)

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/\/\/\/
Common Wiggler
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:30 pm

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by /\/\/\/ »

Does anyone know of some resources (youtube, books, webpages) that have these kind of patching ideas? Not necessarily theory-oriented, but similar kind of recipes? Probably searchable in the forum but perhaps relevant here as well.
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