You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Cwejman, Doepfer, Erica, MakeNoise, Mutable instruments, TipTop Audio, Analogue Solutions, and much more! The world’s most popular format.
Be sure to look into MANUFACTURER SUB-FORA as well..

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
radiokoala
must. build. jacuzzi
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:17 am

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

Use linear FM with lower Index (Fm attenuator) values as opposed to Exp Fm. Linear is generally more melodic and even harmonics-producing. Also maybe drive both with the same CV sequence @Snufflepuff. Exponential Fm in general is more extreme.
Witness 60 minutes of audio-visual industrial psy-techno
jam-offering (and press like so this wipes away minecraft
videos clean from the trends and we get to see
some proper rave action there, FINALLY):

Image

/ My electro-rap debut!! (video)
/ Analog & modular videos
:smoke:
User avatar
Snufflepuff
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:53 pm

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by Snufflepuff »

Thanks! I'm reading this whole thread for the first time, and it's like a cabinet of wonders. From this quote:

"There is no basic patch technique or a way to emulate a resonator. It is possible to recreate a complex sound on its own (a tuba, metal plate, marimba or whatever) using basic analog subtractive synthesis building blocks & (like I showed) make convincing and extremely realistic real world instrument-emulating timbres..."

Is "like I showed" referring to another thread or a technique in this thread that produces the realistic real world instrument timbres? Thanks.
User avatar
radiokoala
must. build. jacuzzi
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:17 am

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

Yeah, I think I was referring more to the audio recordings that you quoted on the previous page like Modular Chimes and Cathedral Surround, they are pretty realistic if you ask me! As far as the more extreme Fm bells, check the Bell Tower Operation track on Eloquencer Sessions, sorta like Big Ben went nuts. :lol:

The best showcase / demo of realistic real world anything (strings in this case) I have ever done is hands down this:



Enjoy and thank you for the cabinet of wonders! :tu:
Witness 60 minutes of audio-visual industrial psy-techno
jam-offering (and press like so this wipes away minecraft
videos clean from the trends and we get to see
some proper rave action there, FINALLY):

Image

/ My electro-rap debut!! (video)
/ Analog & modular videos
:smoke:
User avatar
Snufflepuff
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:53 pm

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by Snufflepuff »

radiokoala wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:45 am “Legit” Wavefolder without Wavefolder :party: :cloud: :drums:
Take the CV (pitch sequence) and offset it several octaves up (+1V and above). Initial CV to VCO¹, shifted one to VCO². Ideally tune both the same (like A note) and then send both to a sequential switch. We normally talk sines here, but we can achieve wavefolded triangles, saws, ramps, and even (!) squares.

Crucial thing to do next is scaling VCO² wave prior to it going into a switch, I speak 0.5x gain or lower for normal applications. If you look at a wavefolded wave, you'll see that the highest frequency portion of it is sits in the center at relatively low of an amplitude. Which is why we do that.

After this, let's use a VCO² to also control the sequential switch. Patch a pulse out or pwm to [2x/../8x Clock Mult and then] Gate In of seq. switch. If you have a VC Tempo divider/mult like 4ms PEG, you can control the frequency at which switching between initial and folded wave occurs by addressing the mult/div with CV, hence the clock mult in-between suggestion. Optionally we can employ an aux oscillator (VCO³) for that, which will give us the advantage of having CV control over periodicity of folded portions within the Single Cycle, too – all rather easily by changing its pitch (with staircase waveforms, sequences and any other signals – or, of course, accomplishing that manually by tweaking the COARSE FREQ knob). :homer:

In case you really went through the trouble of tuning both VCOs to the same note (same octave or not; A1 and A5 is entirely cool), you also get yourself an advantage of producing more even harmonics (sort of additive synth or organ tonewheel-like) in your waveforms by using the whole-volt DC offsets, like 1/2/3/4/5/6V etc.

As such, the added-up part of your resulting waveform – its VCO²-derived of blacksmith forge bellows-looking like “folds” – will play at mathematically and musically meaningful (x2/x3 etc) frequency compared to the base tone, similar to quick arpeggiated octaves.

If, on the contrary, you want to emphasize the odd harmonics more, just set the pitch of Second VCO to STRICT WHATEVER and be done with it! And – returning to the first paragraph, – even to obtain even (Especially Good Puns, Volume MCMLCXVIII :mrgreen:) harmonics, it's not at all obligatory to use offset (especially if you don't have one), since you can just use the pitch knob of a second one as an offset and tune it up five octaves or the like.

Important! By changing the PW on aux VCO (see: paragraph # 3), you get the control over START PHASE at which folding occurs (!). So far, from what is known to me, no commercial wavefolder gives you such a fine grade of control as the cleverly engineered patch of mine that you read through at the moment. (In case I missed something, living in a cave, I encourage manufacturers to advertise their end-all be-all wavefolders that do all this and more – like, fold squares and phase-select – right here in this thread 8-)).

I'll end this all up with saying I feel pretty proud with not only providing a way to do X without Y here (like, emulate feature of a certain module) but also pushing it into the space from stratosphere so much so that to provide the added functionality going far beyond most of the commercially available designs.

PS. If phase-start et al has been part of wavefolders since the Earth creation, I apologize. It's been couple of years since I last saw a wavefolder on pic, let alone in the flesh, so may be giving out the wrong facts driven by self-satisfied pride and ego... :drinking:

:D
Wow, this is my favorite of the those I've read so far!

I'm not sure I'm using VCO3 correctly, though? I've plugged it into the "Rotate" parameter of the clock divider. Detuning VCO3 by octaves gives consonant results, but straying from octaves gets pretty crazy.



Did I set things up correctly? Thanks.
User avatar
radiokoala
must. build. jacuzzi
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:17 am

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

As a quick first suggestion I could advice maybe mixing the wannabe fold out with the original wave at higher level/volume, so that to avoid base pitch going to other places like I saw on the scope. This shall work as an easy fix without too much of the further, more close-look investigation. I think. :tu:
Witness 60 minutes of audio-visual industrial psy-techno
jam-offering (and press like so this wipes away minecraft
videos clean from the trends and we get to see
some proper rave action there, FINALLY):

Image

/ My electro-rap debut!! (video)
/ Analog & modular videos
:smoke:
sacguy71
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:42 pm
Location: Sacramento

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by sacguy71 »

Erica Synths Techno Modular System as I am a big fan so far of my Erica Synths modules and have pretty much most of an Erica Synths Black system. I love building with different modules from various companies but also appreciate the aesthetic of an all one brand system. I may save up and buy one in few years to pair with my Make Noise Shared System for a great modular on the go combo. I could sample to Morphagene and remix beats.
My Music and samples
https://soundcloud.com/pebcap

My Old samples and music when I started learning music production
https://soundcloud.com/modben

Travel 7u Case
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1767271

4u Techno Jam case
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1751409

I have more but use these the most on the go.
redsquares
1-Post Wiggler
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:55 am

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by redsquares »

LoL

WHAT A GREAT THREAD :D

Anyway, just a thought (and a personal opinion (which no one will actually give a f#ck about...))

People who are reading this thread and then asking for an iridium or a virus (without joking about it, but actually being silly and offensive about it,making an actual arguments, etc. :foul: ) should question their eurorack motivation.

It´s the same as comparing LEGO and Playmobil.
Playmobil is already assembled (almost).
LEGO are the building blocks.
You can enjoy both.
I prefer LEGO.
I own both.

So, it´s the same here :D
Of course you can get an odessa cheaper than 123123 oscillators...
Of course you cant build a virus Ti on modular (some might, though...)

The basis for this post is that you can do more stuff with what you already have, while keeping your options open.
Of course sometimes, if you want a particular thing, you are better off getting something specific for it.
Also, if you use building blocks for some of the stuff you want an auto-mode module to do, you can always use the same modules at a later stage to build something else, which you wont be able to do a self-contained module.

However, sometimes having the items separately, offers additional control that you don't have in a module that´s patched from the inside out.

If you can only buy one, buy building blocks.
You can make a castle out of a LEGO boat.
You can't make a boat out of a Playmobil castle.
(you can, but you shouldn't, as your kids would be sad)
User avatar
radiokoala
must. build. jacuzzi
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:17 am

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

Thanks redsquares!

To everyone reading this thread, 206 posts later... surely you've been thinking: “nah, this radiokoala guy doesn't get any more genius than that... he's reached his plateau of all-time best”... right?!?!!! WRONG!

You may have noticed two of the most popular functions I mention are seq. switch and comparator. Which could be cool, but not everyone has as much money as to squeeze in the whole two other utilities than a $5 DIY attenuator in the ocean of Cwejman and Schipmann. :goo: :mrgreen: So there goes. I come to help! :party:

Erica Pico SEQS as a Comparator (!!!)
Like holy $&_, guys, I am so proud of this! I can't tell. Beats almost everything on the sheer elegancy front of out-of-the-box previously unavailable sonic tool engineering with sticks and stones and bubble gum.

Patch the +5V DC offset to COM (Input). Can be 8 or 10V just as well, depending what you want to trig with it, this does not matter much but will determine the voltage of a comparator out. +10V is stellar choice.

Patch the signal to compare to CV in, previously mixing it with the offset voltage (preferrably with both - & + on single knob). Take the IO1 output for the comparator gate out. Use Offset knob to set the threshold voltage (aka hysteresis aka GAP in Doepfer speak). With Pico SEQs you have a “comparison” range of -5 to +5V, and if it seems not enough, you still have an option of simply scaling (attenuating) the incoming CV in a mixer to sort of specify the broader “scan” zone or reach to previously unavailable top or bottom portions of it.

Now I'll explain what happens. Four outputs and -5/+5 CV range mean you have 4 possible voltage threshold values, at which each output is selected. Say, -2.5V to 5V is IO4, 0 to -2.5V corresponds to IO3, and, consecutively, 0-2.5V up selects IO2, as well as 2.5V does the same with IO1 – in other words, factory set threshold for this “comparator” is +2.5V but (!) you can change it by mixing in an offset as explained above. Offset of +0.5V, for example, will set GAP to 2V, formula is Voltage-Offset=Threshold.

Cool, isn't it?? HELL NO. WE'VE JUST STARTED! 🥳
Window Comparator with Pico SEQS
– Holy Fookin Tsssheet! – you'll scream in state of mind “most blown” – this radiokoala guy is NUTS (yes, I am!! :goo:) – what godsend and gift to humanity is this??? I know, I know. It's way too cool, I'm stuck in awe myself. How the hell did I invent it? Way too good, A+++, would deal with again and recommend to a friend. :party: :hyper:

To patch: all same as above but (!) take the IO2 instead. Scaling the CV in a mixer will set the WINDOW SIZE (!!!) and offset in the same mixer is an INITIAL THRESHOLD.

Pardon me all the excitement, but this clearly is the most 900IQ patch of all I have engineered & designed! Maybe even Girts does not know he has a sneaky window comparator hiding within a seemingly simple utility he has designed (hello all Erica Synths and Latvian people, if anyone is reading :D)

Cheers and much love to the modular folk!

:tu:
Witness 60 minutes of audio-visual industrial psy-techno
jam-offering (and press like so this wipes away minecraft
videos clean from the trends and we get to see
some proper rave action there, FINALLY):

Image

/ My electro-rap debut!! (video)
/ Analog & modular videos
:smoke:
User avatar
oakwood
Common Wiggler
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:56 pm
Location: The Upper Wissahickon

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by oakwood »

:tu: Dag :cloud:
User avatar
mandarinpile
Common Wiggler
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Riga

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by mandarinpile »

radiokoala wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:37 pm (hello all Latvian people, if anyone is reading :D)
Reading and enjoying

Am I right, that this patch should work with any CV addressable bi-directional sequential switch? For example, Doepfer A-152?

too bad that Ģirts discontinued Pico SEQS
User avatar
radiokoala
must. build. jacuzzi
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:17 am

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by radiokoala »

It's hard to be more right than you, mandarinpile – I was referring more specifically to Seqs as one of my most favorite modules, but feel free to insert any ____ CVABDSS by other manufacturer, A152 surely fitting! :drinking:

What's more, this patch like most others where I talk about seq. switches and addressing, would work with crossfading multi-input utilities (mixiplexers) like RxMx, Frames, or Toppobrillo Mixiplexer, but with slightly different patching: +5/10V to the rightmost/last (4 of 4, or 8 of 8) channel input, all others to 0V, and monitor the output.

Mixiplexer as a Comparator & Window Comparator: Additional Details

Overall, the same principles with regards to CV in (mix, scale when needed, and offset for changing hysteresis) apply, the only difference is using ins and outs differently.

Among other notable observations and phenoms, the resulting gate width will slightly differ and be wider (same as setting lower threshold with a sequential switch patch) because you'll get arithmetic average between 5 and 0 at the point where you'd get the exact zero with non-slewed transition, so to speak, but this does not matter at all and can be dealt with with simply adjusting offset, so sorta the same all around, just different maths and calculus, give a flying V about this not. :guitar: ;)

Very importantly, emulating the Window Size parameter of a window comparator with a mixiplexer is possible, too – for this one you'll have to increase the neighbour channel voltage, the more, the wider. Very handily done on Frames with a built-in attenuator and +10V offset normalling on thanks to the dedicated switch.

Additionally, depending on what channel you patch the positive voltage to, you can get both CMP OUT and INV CMP OUT – like, patching to the Frames channels 1 or 4 (one of each) would make it either react to the threshold value and up (like normal comparator, producing the gate until the voltage drops lower than hysteresis point) or in inverse: reacting to the falling and steady voltages within the set range instead of rising and steady.

SEQS (CV Addr. Bi-Dir Seq.Sw) as a Gate Distributor / Triple Gate Delay AND Comparator :party: :goo:
Take the sequential switch as a comparator patch and change input and output configuration. Mult something like +10V DC offset to four of its inputs, and monitor the COM (single output). You will get four perfectly independent gates, first one is your CMP OUT, as usual, and three remaining together make a CMP INV, meaning that you have sort of three additional comparators, each reacting to the changes in incoming signal. As such, you can, for example, trigger drums or events with these four independent gates and two sounds will never be triggered simultaneously. Interestingly, by raising the threshold (offset in a mixer), you do simultaneously shorten the gate delay time for Gates 2-4, which is just an incredible bonus feature to have: comparator PLUS free gate delay (also read as: THREE gate delays! :party:) with a very simple patch on a super inexpensive module like SEQS (again, I bought mine for 20£ something off Matttech on sale, used ones should be cheap, too!).

A minute of interesting maths for you all: as I said, three of the “delayed” gates (or think of them as extra window comparators with set window size of 2.5V per each with something like Erica Pico SEQS, diff. values for diff. modules depending on CV range and number of inputs) together make what would an inverted comparator signal. As such, if we, say, feed our Seqs the periodic wave and its shape stays intact for the threshold+raising voltage portion, we'll always have the same gate out on IO1. However, if we somehow modify it within its negative range, three remaining comparators will produce gates of different width depending on a signal.

Simpler put, your overall CMP INV period (length) is, say, ______. Now, this could be both ___ __ _ or _ _ ____, or literally anything but within the 100% of its duration, like 25+25+50 or 5+6+89, you get the idea, and this could change very much depending on the signal fluctuations or keep steady if it's always the same on every cycle.

Could be fun to timbrally animate the slow LFO going into a Seqs' CV in so as to dynamically change the 4 window comparators' gate outputs and THEN use these four for arpeggio-like chord strums. With longer sustains, by patching these to the dedicated ADSRs of four separate voices, we could get nice polyphonic fade-in fade-out action. :party: (Or Cool ASR-like arabesque trills!)

You can also think of these four gates as sort of normal plus phase-shifted outputs like 0°, 90°, 180°, 270° on e.g. Joranalogue modules or something like Intellijel Dr. Octature (and other filters & oscillators designed within the similar topology principles), but here these phases could jump back and forth to any possible combinations, like 0° (of course) and then 37°, 42°, and 451 213 degrees.

Checking those all out with a scope could be a good idea, too, and extremely illustrative as far as relationships of the four signals.

Up next... FUN BONUS! :sun: new!
Portable synthesizer as a BATTERY TESTER
Take as much unused AA batteries as you want and grab a neighbour's son's Korg Volca (or Monotribe, but less precise with only 8 and not 16 LEDs!).

As you already know – or don't! 8-) – on power-up your tiny battery powered volca or other similar machine would light up its leds, from very few, to all sixteen, to indicate the battery strength.

Now, say you have 12 of them saluting you with their way of saying “Hi” (handwave in a light-emitting diode speak! :tu:). Now take one out and replace with one of the “old, unused, unsure if they are any good, or at least some of” kind of pack. You do now get 7 LEDs on power-up, but all other AAs get as many as 10 lighting up. Congrats, you've just found out the first one was worst of the bunch (no offense, lil' alcaline dude, just scientific observations :razz:). In the similar manner, mix and match batteries 'til your hands fall off and enjoy a day well-spent.

If for some reason your synth does not power up with one or more of the AAs you try, that one or those may be most completely dead and totally of zero use.

Bear in mind also, batteries do rarely discharge all the same, so by using this trick (or a multimeter) you can both do good for the planet and your own wallet – no need to buy a four-pack if only one's a bad offender.

“Try to minimize the use of non-rechargeable batteries and do not flush the toilet very often!” © the Dinosaurs, circa 15000000 BC, Famous Last Words before :nuke:

JK but also serious (like always!),
your friend Igor
:boat:
Witness 60 minutes of audio-visual industrial psy-techno
jam-offering (and press like so this wipes away minecraft
videos clean from the trends and we get to see
some proper rave action there, FINALLY):

Image

/ My electro-rap debut!! (video)
/ Analog & modular videos
:smoke:
User avatar
mandarinpile
Common Wiggler
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:22 am
Location: Riga

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by mandarinpile »

"CVABDSS" should be printed on panels :D
User avatar
KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 7659
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by KSS »

A simpler battery tester is *any* 1V-Oct VCO. Each volt equals octave. simple

set it to some low to mid-range freq. Plug in the battery. AKA touch one end to a jack nut and use a patchcord tip for the other end.

Listen to how many octaves-semitones it goes up or down.
User avatar
pieter
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2111
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:59 pm
Location: UK

Re: You want to buy a ____? Don't.

Post by pieter »

KSS wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:49 pm A simpler battery tester is *any* 1V-Oct VCO. Each volt equals octave. simple

set it to some low to mid-range freq. Plug in the battery. AKA touch one end to a jack nut and use a patchcord tip for the other end.

Listen to how many octaves-semitones it goes up or down.
nice!
Post Reply

Return to “1U & 3U Eurorack Modules”