Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by Kawouddd » Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:11 pm

I still feel pretty bad about the Erica hi hats D that I returned to Elevator, when it turned out that it’s signal was about one quarter of the volume of all other Erica drum modules AND ERICA APPARENTLY CONFIRMED THIS WAS A FEATURe not a bug. Replaced it with a hi hats A, but saw that D crop up on their “open box” emails for weeks (months?) after. No way I could have known, still felt thoroughly bad about it, sure I subsequently spent a great deal more there because of their willingness to take the return 😂

Edit: oh, and a harmonaig, which I don’t feel bad about because the bastards are fundamentally broken. And the replacement that was sent out had exactly the same bug / feature / lack of tracking as the first one, despite it being checked in store before we swapped. bah.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by tumblz » Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:19 pm

DallasKnight wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:49 pm
As a small retailer in a different industry I can say that the easy return culture being promoted by some bigger companies, often does not help small retailers, ofcourse returns from time to time are essential and should be freely accessible to customers, but there are lots of new young shoppers out there who will buy without researching, thinking or even reading descriptions safe in the knowledge that they can just return without loss, this needs to be discouraged. Retailers do raise prices to compensate for high returns
While I still think a store's return policy is not the responsibility of customers, I do agree that return policies can potentially be used by bigger retailers as part of a larger strategy to outcompete them. But that's fundamentally about scale and not return policies. That just boils down to whether you shop at a big store or a small store. If I support the small store but use the return policy, that's still better shopping at the big box store. The bottom line is that either the return policy is practical or it is not. Eurorack modules are luxury goods. If people want to do something "ethical", go volunteer or donate some money to a nonprofit. Let's not pretend we're doing something noble for the world by "not returning" modules.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by Dragonaut » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:57 pm

Wouldn’t feel right for me personally although I’ve been known to be a little over-considerate. I have a personal policy of really putting a module through its paces even after I’ve decided to get rid of it since there’s a lot of room for user error when not getting along with modules.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by okayiquit » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:25 am

Not if the module isn't what you expected, and you did a bit of research beforehand. I don't think it's great to treat music gear retailers like a shoe store, but I think online retail makes returns more acceptable because they're not having to provide a way to try something in person.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by maudibe » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:23 am

Not preaching or being a saint here ... but I've never returned a module, and fortunately I have not had any faulty ones - but that's a separate and justified reason for returning.

It's not like you can just wade through a dealers catalogue until you find something you like. Obviously, once someone has opened the box, plugged it in and tried it, it is then 'used', and can only be sold as B-stock or ex-demo.

This has a profound impact on the dealer, and this trickles down to both the maker and the other end customers, who pay the premium of someone abusing the returns policy. The notion of modular being "expensive anyway, so..." does not in anyway justify this practice.

If you take care on your purchases you will not be ordering a module that does not meet your expectations in capabilities.

Goodness, with the amount of video reviews, both from the manufacturer and independent sources, the availability of online manuals and this mighty forum, wigglers have no excuse to do this.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by DallasKnight » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:05 am

tumblz wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:19 pm
DallasKnight wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:49 pm
As a small retailer in a different industry I can say that the easy return culture being promoted by some bigger companies, often does not help small retailers, ofcourse returns from time to time are essential and should be freely accessible to customers, but there are lots of new young shoppers out there who will buy without researching, thinking or even reading descriptions safe in the knowledge that they can just return without loss, this needs to be discouraged. Retailers do raise prices to compensate for high returns
While I still think a store's return policy is not the responsibility of customers, I do agree that return policies can potentially be used by bigger retailers as part of a larger strategy to outcompete them. But that's fundamentally about scale and not return policies. That just boils down to whether you shop at a big store or a small store. If I support the small store but use the return policy, that's still better shopping at the big box store. The bottom line is that either the return policy is practical or it is not. Eurorack modules are luxury goods. If people want to do something "ethical", go volunteer or donate some money to a nonprofit. Let's not pretend we're doing something noble for the world by "not returning" modules.
Nobody said anything about doing something noble for the world as you put it, it's just about being nice and considerate to the retailer who in this case is likely to be a small business

An item returned can't be considered new so its likely to create a loss rather than just lost profit, obviously returns will happen from time to time but I just think that a buyer shouldnt go into purchase with a potential return already on their mind. In the case of the OP it sounds like it's a one off therefore not really a problem, but I would just sell the module on as used if it was me

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by damase » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:38 am

Yes. Its bad form to return something that has no functional issues because you just dont like it

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by x2mirko » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:38 am

I'd say it's perfectly fine to do this if you generally spend the time and effort to research modules well before you buy them. Sometimes there's just issues with the functionality that were hard to see without having the module in front of you and so you return it, no big deal. However, it does cost the retailer money every time you do it, so I think one should not exploit it and simply order all the modules to try them out and return most of them. Especially true when dealing with a small retailer.

Pretty simple, really: Don't be a dick.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by Sleepfc » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:55 pm

2 cents. I work at a music store so I see this kind of stuff all the time

Sure, there are times when an item just simply doesn't fit. You even demo'd it in store and truly believed that it was what you were looking for. But then once you bring it home and try it with the rest of the gear you quickly find that maybe it wasn't what you were looking for.
Those are moments I can totally say "hey, that sucks, lets get you something that will work better."
No harm no foul

But then there are the shitheads that come in. The ones that have a "hot gig" (so they believe) tomorrow and would love to have a sweet new guitar, amp, synth, you name it. From the start you know that this sale is going be returned. They start asking about the 2 week return policy, and you just know this thing is coming back after a couple days. This sucks. It wastes my time, the stores time, and ultimately the selfishness of their actions just leaves you feeling sour. Thats when it becomes a problem. Now the item is going to be returned, and we'll have to work twice as hard just to resell the open box item. You can do that at Target, or Walmart, but a store as niche as a mom and pop instrument store just isn't built to take that kind of abuse. It does a lot more harm than good. That's why I would avoid buying new if you're on the fence over a module.

To me, it all comes to the discretion of the user. These days, there's no shortage of video demos on modules. You can find them on YouTube, instagram, reddit, etc. You can have a pretty decent idea if a module you're interested in will work for you. The best thing to do instead of returning back to a store is to just sell it yourself. Im a believer of buying new and selling for as close as you can to the original price. You spare the storefront, and you basically pay for a rental on an item without involving the store that you purchased from. And the used market moves pretty fast, you usually won't have problems making back the majority that you paid for it.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by devinw1 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:00 pm

I would just think about who you are buying from. For really small guys like myself, I would be happy to return something if you don't like it, because I never want anyone to be unhappy. Customer happiness is job #1. But, please know that takes time and effort to handle a return, and possibly losing money if it's in a condition that is not brand new anymore. So, don't abuse the "privilege" i guess and swap stuff in and out on a whim. Do that with Wall-Mart please ;).

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by devinw1 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:01 pm

Sleepfc wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:55 pm
2 cents. I work at a music store so I see this kind of stuff all the time

Sure, there are times when an item just simply doesn't fit. You even demo'd it in store and truly believed that it was what you were looking for. But then once you bring it home and try it with the rest of the gear you quickly find that maybe it wasn't what you were looking for.
Those are moments I can totally say "hey, that sucks, lets get you something that will work better."
No harm no foul

But then there are the shitheads that come in. The ones that have a "hot gig" (so they believe) tomorrow and would love to have a sweet new guitar, amp, synth, you name it. From the start you know that this sale is going be returned. They start asking about the 2 week return policy, and you just know this thing is coming back after a couple days. This sucks. It wastes my time, the stores time, and ultimately the selfishness of their actions just leaves you feeling sour. Thats when it becomes a problem. Now the item is going to be returned, and we'll have to work twice as hard just to resell the open box item. You can do that at Target, or Walmart, but a store as niche as a mom and pop instrument store just isn't built to take that kind of abuse. It does a lot more harm than good. That's why I would avoid buying new if you're on the fence over a module.

To me, it all comes to the discretion of the user. These days, there's no shortage of video demos on modules. You can find them on YouTube, instagram, reddit, etc. You can have a pretty decent idea if a module you're interested in will work for you. The best thing to do instead of returning back to a store is to just sell it yourself. Im a believer of buying new and selling for as close as you can to the original price. You spare the storefront, and you basically pay for a rental on an item without involving the store that you purchased from. And the used market moves pretty fast, you usually won't have problems making back the majority that you paid for it.
Exactly. :tu:

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by ratskull » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:15 pm

IMO, it is bad form for a person to buy a module with the intent to demo it and return it if they are not satisfied. There are plenty of videos online and plenty of forums where questions can be answered by people who already own the module or designers who created the module. If everyone employed this strategy, there would be more modules in transit than in stores or racks. In the long run, it would not good for retailers or the rest of the community.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by Eurocat » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:29 pm

Don’t listen to the people who say it’s wrong. This is part of having a business. It’s totally fine to try it out and see if it’s what you need and fits your sound.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by Eurocat » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:32 pm

I actually buy synths from Amazon and keep them for a month, sample all the sounds and send it back. I’ve done this at least 25x this year. It’s great keeping something for a month and getting your money back. I wouldn’t do this to a small shop but I have no issue at all doing it to Amazon. They even have Eurorack!

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by tumblz » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:49 pm

Eurocat wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:32 pm
I actually buy synths from Amazon and keep them for a month, sample all the sounds and send it back. I’ve done this at least 25x this year. It’s great keeping something for a month and getting your money back. I wouldn’t do this to a small shop but I have no issue at all doing it to Amazon. They even have Eurorack!
I also think returning modules is okay, but Amazon is wack. It's actually better to buy and return modules through smaller independent stores IF you are a regular customer and they ultimately make money off of you. The idea that it's OK because it's Amazon is stupid. You aren't punishing Amazon or abusing their policies. It has no impact on them! That's the problem. Just support the businesses you want to survive. If that's Amazon... then you don't need to worry because they are a monopoly.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by tumblz » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:51 pm

Sleepfc wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:55 pm
2 cents. I work at a music store so I see this kind of stuff all the time

Sure, there are times when an item just simply doesn't fit. You even demo'd it in store and truly believed that it was what you were looking for. But then once you bring it home and try it with the rest of the gear you quickly find that maybe it wasn't what you were looking for.
Those are moments I can totally say "hey, that sucks, lets get you something that will work better."
No harm no foul

But then there are the shitheads that come in. The ones that have a "hot gig" (so they believe) tomorrow and would love to have a sweet new guitar, amp, synth, you name it. From the start you know that this sale is going be returned. They start asking about the 2 week return policy, and you just know this thing is coming back after a couple days. This sucks. It wastes my time, the stores time, and ultimately the selfishness of their actions just leaves you feeling sour. Thats when it becomes a problem. Now the item is going to be returned, and we'll have to work twice as hard just to resell the open box item. You can do that at Target, or Walmart, but a store as niche as a mom and pop instrument store just isn't built to take that kind of abuse. It does a lot more harm than good. That's why I would avoid buying new if you're on the fence over a module.

To me, it all comes to the discretion of the user. These days, there's no shortage of video demos on modules. You can find them on YouTube, instagram, reddit, etc. You can have a pretty decent idea if a module you're interested in will work for you. The best thing to do instead of returning back to a store is to just sell it yourself. Im a believer of buying new and selling for as close as you can to the original price. You spare the storefront, and you basically pay for a rental on an item without involving the store that you purchased from. And the used market moves pretty fast, you usually won't have problems making back the majority that you paid for it.
TWO WORDS: restocking fee

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by Foghorn » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:24 pm

I never return modules either.
Even when I have received the wrong module.
I ordered a 2 hp LFO V2 and received a Pluck.
Of course that was OK because I fell in love with Pluck, for a while that is.
Of course I don't think that I have ever bought a module that doesn't work.
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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by Tonefloat01 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:33 pm

Definitely bad form to purchase a module only to test it out and return it for a refund in my book.
If you don’t gel with a module then it’s more on you for not doing enough research prior to your initial purchase.
It’s not the stores fault if you made a bad decision so unless they specifically said you could return it if you didn’t like it, then you should just sell it yourself.
I’ve only ever returned modules either because they were defective and/or damaged during shipment.
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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by Kent » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:07 am

Develop a relationship with a dealer and, over time, it is a part of relationship building and business. Warning: this may demand that a person communicates with another real person. It's not a skill for everyone.
Context, over time, is important. If one makes it a lop-sided relationship, then they may find themselves with one fewer provider.

The “don’t be a douche” creed applies.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by deft_bonz » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:08 am

I'd have a talk with my preferred dealer (where I almost buy all modules) and tell him beforehand, or ask him if you can get a "demo" module. This way no surprises for both.

Even if you buy a module and honestly really don't get along with it, it's ok. The question is how many times does that happen. Then the question is, where would one draw a line between honesty and abuse.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by lisa » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:19 am

If a dealer can't afford to take returns then the dealer really should't have a generous return policy, right?

Though, where I live there's a 14 day return policy, no questions asked-situation by law. Mandatory for all dealers. That can be misused, of course.

I've returned one module (about 1% of the modules I've bought). The seller is a huge stockist of music gear that choose to have a 30 day return policy. I don't feel bad about that at all.
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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by deft_bonz » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:26 am

lisa wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:19 am

Though, where I live there's a 14 day return policy, no questions asked-situation by law. Mandatory for all dealers. That can be misused, of course.
Switzerland cannot afford to have return policy by law. It's poor poor country, where dealers have to be protected from the malicious ransomware called customers. Customer is king my a$$ :mad: :bang:

I get pretty pissed, when Swiss dealers complain about people buying from abroad.

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by DCDanno » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:06 am

Eurocat wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:32 pm
I actually buy synths from Amazon and keep them for a month, sample all the sounds and send it back. I’ve done this at least 25x this year. It’s great keeping something for a month and getting your money back. I wouldn’t do this to a small shop but I have no issue at all doing it to Amazon. They even have Eurorack!
How is this ok?

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by Eurocat » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:10 am

DCDanno wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:06 am
Eurocat wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:32 pm
I actually buy synths from Amazon and keep them for a month, sample all the sounds and send it back. I’ve done this at least 25x this year. It’s great keeping something for a month and getting your money back. I wouldn’t do this to a small shop but I have no issue at all doing it to Amazon. They even have Eurorack!
How is this ok?
It works out nicely for me!!

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Re: Is It Bad Form To Try Out A Module, And Then Return It?

Post by skoolafish » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:40 am

I'm not comfortable with it. Luckily, Softube and VCV rack together have a good amount of software emulations for popular modules. I can use ad nauseum before I buy something. This has saved me the embarrassment. For most anything else, I just read the manual online first

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