Do I need an M303?

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

mat1
Common Wiggler
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:57 am

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by mat1 » Sun May 30, 2021 12:44 pm

bemushroomed wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:29 pm
brandonlogic wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:16 pm

Just learn to work with the td3 you already have… Most classic acid tracks/artists used the 303 and much of its charm is a result of it’s quirks, especially the sequencer. Embrace it. Figure out how to work with it. Your not going to find better options in eurorack if your trying to write acid. You already have something extremely close to the exact machine your inspired by.
I agree.. it's also not like you have to use its sequencer, you can even write sequences using the computer and transfer them to the TD3. The program that it comes with is super easy to use, requires no training like the built in sequencer.
To be honest the main thing I like about my euro setup is that I can create random, quantised sequences that are in key of my project at the press of a button or the turn of a knob. When I'm writing I like to work quickly so if a part (especially a secondary part) doesn't sound good within about 30 seconds it's gone.

The TD3 has a random feature but it's not much use to me as you have no control of the key, range etc.

User avatar
brandonlogic
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:17 am
Location: Milwaukee WI

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by brandonlogic » Sun May 30, 2021 12:47 pm

mat1 wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:44 pm
bemushroomed wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:29 pm
brandonlogic wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:16 pm

Just learn to work with the td3 you already have… Most classic acid tracks/artists used the 303 and much of its charm is a result of it’s quirks, especially the sequencer. Embrace it. Figure out how to work with it. Your not going to find better options in eurorack if your trying to write acid. You already have something extremely close to the exact machine your inspired by.
I agree.. it's also not like you have to use its sequencer, you can even write sequences using the computer and transfer them to the TD3. The program that it comes with is super easy to use, requires no training like the built in sequencer.
To be honest the main thing I like about my euro setup is that I can create random, quantised sequences that are in key of my project at the press of a button or the turn of a knob. When I'm writing I like to work quickly so if a part (especially a secondary part) doesn't sound good within about 30 seconds it's gone.

The TD3 has a random feature but it's not much use to me as you have no control of the key, range etc.
Try doing what I suggested. Just find the notes that work and add them kind of randomly and then add the per step functions randomly. It’s very quick and works really well.
If you don’t like it clear it and do it again.
It’s very fast once you do it a couple times. great way to generate material quickly.

Seriously you can generate sequences that are in whatever key In less than a minute.
Last edited by brandonlogic on Sun May 30, 2021 12:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Kosmikos
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:21 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by Kosmikos » Sun May 30, 2021 12:54 pm

mat1 wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 11:23 am
I actually already have a TD3, very cool when it works but I can’t stand the sequencer. I think because I don’t usually start my tracks with a 303 line that kind of sequencing mid writing session is a real vibe killer.

From what I understand the glide and accent behaviour are really important.
Can we sequence the TD3 from the Black Sequencer midi out? I might try that, could be fun.

User avatar
bemushroomed
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:30 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by bemushroomed » Sun May 30, 2021 12:57 pm

brandonlogic wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:38 pm
^for sure!

I actually like the sequencer, I like to use it in a semi random way. Find a scale of notes that works with what I’m working on, punch in a quick sequence without thinking about it too much, then kind of randomly add some accents, rests and slides, and usually come out with some awesome, useful sequences. Also so easy to make variations of a sequence just putting the accents and slides in different places. It’s amazing how different a sequence can be just having to those in slightly different places.
It’s super inspiring to work with and super unique.
i love my stepper acid because its kind of how i want the tb sequencer to be ;) just play on the keyboard and it records/loops, as easy as it gets.. then i play around with slide, accent to make variations which makes it sound like an entirely new sequence.. its really fun to use it live because it's such a non-destructive way to add variation. the 303 sequencer is really cumbersome to me, but i've not used it enough.

User avatar
brandonlogic
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:17 am
Location: Milwaukee WI

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by brandonlogic » Sun May 30, 2021 1:00 pm

the 303 sequencer is really cumbersome to me, but i've not used it enough.
Word. Like anything, just takes a little practice.
It can be extremely fast if your going for semi random stuff. I would never want to use if to write out something very specific though.
Last edited by brandonlogic on Sun May 30, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bluesmoke
Common Wiggler
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:24 am

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by bluesmoke » Sun May 30, 2021 1:02 pm

Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 10:10 am
bluesmoke wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 8:58 am
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 11:41 pm
bluesmoke wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 6:11 pm
Some of the best acid traxx were not produced with a 303.
kinda subjective and how are you sure your approximation is accurate?
It doesn't need to
so what you’re saying is you have absolutely nothing to base your claim on? classic.
Kinda subjective

User avatar
Red Electric Rainbow
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3430
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:48 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Sun May 30, 2021 1:07 pm

bluesmoke wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 1:02 pm
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 10:10 am
bluesmoke wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 8:58 am
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 11:41 pm
bluesmoke wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 6:11 pm
Some of the best acid traxx were not produced with a 303.
kinda subjective and how are you sure your approximation is accurate?
It doesn't need to
so what you’re saying is you have absolutely nothing to base your claim on? classic.
Kinda subjective
more like an accurate approximation
TOO FAR GONE

bluesmoke
Common Wiggler
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:24 am

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by bluesmoke » Sun May 30, 2021 1:21 pm

:foul:
Last edited by bluesmoke on Sun May 30, 2021 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mat1
Common Wiggler
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:57 am

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by mat1 » Sun May 30, 2021 1:34 pm

brandonlogic wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:47 pm
Try doing what I suggested. Just find the notes that work and add them kind of randomly and then add the per step functions randomly. It’s very quick and works really well.
If you don’t like it clear it and do it again.
It’s very fast once you do it a couple times. great way to generate material quickly.

Seriously you can generate sequences that are in whatever key In less than a minute.
Believe me I've tried!

User avatar
Kosmikos
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:21 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by Kosmikos » Sun May 30, 2021 4:24 pm

Kosmikos wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:54 pm
Can we sequence the TD3 from the Black Sequencer midi out? I might try that, could be fun.
Before anyone think that I’m mad, this is exactly what I’ve done tonight recorded on this track:


The interaction is basic though, cv and gate only, no control of the filter (easy enough to use a Eurorack filter though). It seems that the line out of the TD-3 is up to the job sending to Eurorack level (only required a small amount of boost), but not the headphones out. I couldn’t find a way to send velocity through (shame as accentuation can be controlled through midi), or pitch bend for slides. I must try harder...

User avatar
Abyssinianloop
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:25 pm

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by Abyssinianloop » Sun May 30, 2021 8:53 pm

I bought a tt-303 V1 when it came out and I was looking for some 303 fun. At the time it seemed like a good value to replicate the experience close enough for me.

I've never heard the TD3, but if it had been available at these prices, I surely would have given it a try.

I use a BSP for midi to cv conversion between euro and the TT. Easy enough to clock sync and start/stop with whichever controlling the other.

I'm not willing to spend the money on the acid-specific modules in euro, because I'm not that serious about it. But I can get some fun acidy sounds with my existing modules and patching techniques, and then all the fun euro interconnectivity, modulation, movement control is there, which is more fun to me than achieving a replica sound. I do, however, covet an xox heart and stepper acid. Maybe one day.
FS: Dinky's Taiko, Polaris, Nano Rand
WTB: TiNRS Tuesday
Modulagrid

User avatar
Neo
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 936
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:22 am
Location: Auckland

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by Neo » Sun May 30, 2021 9:49 pm

I get great 303-ish sounds from saw/square into WMD C4RBN filter with two envelope generators, one for the main sound and the other for accents. The accent envelope goes to the RES input and also to a CV mixer with the main envelope so that accents bump both the FM and RES inputs. WMD time warp handles slides. This patch can cover a lot of classic 303 territory and it can go places a real 303 can't.

pitch CV > time warp > osc
osc saw/sq > C4RBN IN
gate > env1 > mixer
accent > env2 > mixer and C4RBN RES
mixer > C4RBN FM

User avatar
bemushroomed
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:30 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by bemushroomed » Mon May 31, 2021 2:02 am

Cool. Even though i have 303 covered it's indeed nice to have a wider territory than the usual sound. I use my vcf303 + braids + geigercounter + Contour 1 sometimes for acid.. covers a lot of various and unique acid sounds.

autopoiesis
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1413
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm
Location: berlin

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by autopoiesis » Mon May 31, 2021 2:21 pm

Kosmikos wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:54 pm
mat1 wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 11:23 am
I actually already have a TD3, very cool when it works but I can’t stand the sequencer. I think because I don’t usually start my tracks with a 303 line that kind of sequencing mid writing session is a real vibe killer.

From what I understand the glide and accent behaviour are really important.
Can we sequence the TD3 from the Black Sequencer midi out? I might try that, could be fun.
One thing to keep in mind is that the TD3 has something like 15ms of latency when responding to MIDI, and probably jitters like fuck. Behringer have stated on some forum or other that the MIDI input is only expected to be reliable for clock.

I found it unusable, but it's possible to mod it for CV control of pitch, gate, and filter. See https://maffez.com/ or email him (Matthias) if you want to commission the mods. He did a great job with mine and now it's basically an M303 too.

User avatar
Kosmikos
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:21 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by Kosmikos » Mon May 31, 2021 4:50 pm

autopoiesis wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 2:21 pm
One thing to keep in mind is that the TD3 has something like 15ms of latency when responding to MIDI, and probably jitters like fuck. Behringer have stated on some forum or other that the MIDI input is only expected to be reliable for clock.

I found it unusable, but it's possible to mod it for CV control of pitch, gate, and filter. See https://maffez.com/ or email him (Matthias) if you want to commission the mods. He did a great job with mine and now it's basically an M303 too.
I’ve been pretty happy sequencing it from my Digitakt if I remember correctly. I think I can get it pretty much do what I want without using the internal sequencer. But that still means manually wriggling the filter.
CV control on everything would indeed be super fun, thanks for sharing the link!

mat1
Common Wiggler
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:57 am

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by mat1 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:50 am

Kosmikos wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 4:24 pm
Before anyone think that I’m mad, this is exactly what I’ve done tonight recorded on this track:

Sounds nice!

mat1
Common Wiggler
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:57 am

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by mat1 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:28 am

Quick update for anyone that cares. I managed to snag an m303 on reverb and so far it's amazing.

Alongside the Turing machine for random Accent+Slides and the black sequencer it's pretty much exactly what I've been looking for.

I just need to figure out a good way of creating gates from the Turing machine triggers. Maths seems a bit overkill for the task but at least I already own it!

kwaidan
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 3:14 pm

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by kwaidan » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:04 am

With sequencers that do not have individual step mutes, I use an Intellijel Steppy to create patterns. You could use it to create gates, so it might be worth a look. I’ll add that I never used one with a Turing Machine, so research it.

At one time, Surgeon used a Turing Machine live. He also used an M303 with it. He talks about his setup in the video below. It’s old, so you may have seen it.

Edit: Doepfer makes a trigger to gate converter.




mat1
Common Wiggler
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:57 am

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by mat1 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:53 pm

kwaidan wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:04 am

At one time, Surgeon used a Turing Machine live. He also used an M303 with it. He talks about his setup in the video below. It’s old, so you may have seen it.
Yeah very cool vid. It's not clear what he's using for gate length. I'm probably overthinking it

kwaidan
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 3:14 pm

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by kwaidan » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:38 pm

I sold my Turing Machine years ago, but I think he is using the 4 HP Pulses add-on module for gate out. If not, then he may be getting gate from the one with the eight sliders on it.

6BEF0716-421B-44D6-B27D-93228B8335F1.jpeg

acidhead
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:40 pm

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by acidhead » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:55 pm

bluesmoke wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 6:11 pm
Some of the best acid traxx were not produced with a 303.
Ditto, 101 and 202 for the win.

User avatar
3hands
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2210
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:36 pm
Location: Ottawa Ontario

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by 3hands » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:09 pm

acidhead wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:55 pm
bluesmoke wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 6:11 pm
Some of the best acid traxx were not produced with a 303.
Ditto, 101 and 202 for the win.

Like Josh Winks Higher State of Consciousness (ducks)

🤗
Gum is fun, but not on a cat.

My minds an art gallery.

User avatar
Abyssinianloop
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:25 pm

Re: Do I need an M303?

Post by Abyssinianloop » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:25 pm

mat1 wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:28 am

I just need to figure out a good way of creating gates from the Turing machine triggers. Maths seems a bit overkill for the task but at least I already own it!
The Turing Machine triggers come out however you put them in. If you clock your tm with longer gates, that's the length of the pulses that come out. Further, if you varry the gate lengths going in, they come out that way too. A great way to get longer and shorter notes from your sequence when patching those gates to control the envelopes that control the vcas.
FS: Dinky's Taiko, Polaris, Nano Rand
WTB: TiNRS Tuesday
Modulagrid

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”