Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

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DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:22 am

pichenettes wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:59 am
You have to understand the backstory behind Clouds/Beads reverb...

When I designed Clouds, it was not supposed to have a reverb (BLEND was supposed to be a single function dry/wet control).

Then how did the reverb arrive?

The CPU available on the hardware doesn't allow more than 30-40 simultaneous grains. But since I develop my code on a desktop machine, I could experiment with a larger number (100, 1000) of concurrent grains. I noticed that it didn't sound vastly different from a reverb (at this scale granularization is pretty much like randomizing the phase of the input signal, totally smearing the transients). And then I had the idea that I could "fake" a large number of grains with a reverb: when the user dialled settings that couldn't be achieved because they required a very large number of "real" grains, "virtual" grains were added by cranking up a reverb. So in an early version of the module, the reverb had no dedicated knob: it was faded in for extreme combinations of DENSITY/SIZE. At this point, it was pretty clear that it was meant to be applied only to the wet (granularized) signal.

Some beta-testers liked that effect (or reversely, didn't like how it automatically faded in for large densities) and requested a separate control for it. That's where the BLEND feature-creep happened.

There are remnants of this reverb-as-a-limit-case-of-granular-synthesis philosophy in Clouds: the extreme setting of the TEXTURE knob, and in the way the reverb kicks in when FREEZE is engaged and FEEDBACK is high.

And this is why Clouds was launched with a reverb (something not obvious for a granular processor) only applied on the wet signal.

Then the module got released, got popular, and people came to use the reverb as an end of chain FX. This might be what prompted the developer of Parasites to apply it to the dry (non-granularized) signal too, and ultimately, it came back frequently to me as a feature request for Clouds' official firmware.

When I designed Beads, I totally eliminated the idea of "virtual" grains (at first, naively, because I thought the hardware would reach a 100 concurrent grains target), but kept the reverb because I knew people expected it to be present. It became its own independent global, end of chain thing, with only one meta-parameter, pretty much like Elements' SPACE knob.
Émilie, tu es vraiment géniale!

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Bitcat
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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by Bitcat » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:57 am

I was looking at those overpriced listings and found this :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: good one
Beads.png

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dooj88
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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by dooj88 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:37 pm

beatcleaver wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:36 pm
no wonder mutable isn't designing anymore. sheesh.
no wonder people don't want to voice their opinions, sheesh
it's one thing if there's an obvious functionality omission that most users would want that the designer overlooked. it's another to ding the design because they don't want to use a simple workaround with basic tools. also i don't think anyone is shy about voicing opinions on the internet.

no offense meant, i just have a thing with people empowering themselves rather than relying to someone else to do things for them. i work in support as well, so i'm probably overly sensitive to it :omg:

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xcc
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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by xcc » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:23 pm

Well I for one am looking forward to the inevitable "Reverb Floor of the Universe" video to explain this absolute fiasco ;)

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beatcleaver
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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by beatcleaver » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:05 pm

dooj88 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:37 pm
beatcleaver wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:36 pm
no wonder mutable isn't designing anymore. sheesh.
no wonder people don't want to voice their opinions, sheesh
it's one thing if there's an obvious functionality omission that most users would want that the designer overlooked. it's another to ding the design because they don't want to use a simple workaround with basic tools. also i don't think anyone is shy about voicing opinions on the internet.

no offense meant, i just have a thing with people empowering themselves rather than relying to someone else to do things for them. i work in support as well, so i'm probably overly sensitive to it :omg:
fair enough, that makes more sense, cheers

I don't envy you working in support. I've seen it, the horror is real

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by Nutritional Zero » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:38 pm

I just had my first "where the fuck is that sound coming from" moment when Beads is unpatched while I re-route a patch through some other modules.

I'd prefer a key combo to activate this tbh, it's super frightening when you get hit by it for real.

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by drxcm » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:08 am

Yeah I don't like the "auto wavetable mode" either

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by mkdvb » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:22 am

Nutritional Zero wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:38 pm
I just had my first "where the fuck is that sound coming from" moment when Beads is unpatched while I re-route a patch through some other modules.

I'd prefer a key combo to activate this tbh, it's super frightening when you get hit by it for real.
I read this & then had 3 of these tonight for the first time! I think I'm with you -- it's pretty intrusive.

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tvparcable
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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by tvparcable » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:08 am

mkdvb wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:22 am
Nutritional Zero wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:38 pm
I just had my first "where the fuck is that sound coming from" moment when Beads is unpatched while I re-route a patch through some other modules.

I'd prefer a key combo to activate this tbh, it's super frightening when you get hit by it for real.
I read this & then had 3 of these tonight for the first time! I think I'm with you -- it's pretty intrusive.
Imagine this happening during a live perfor- :waah:

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by Kosmikos » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:22 am

tvparcable wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:08 am
Imagine this happening during a live perfor- :waah:
Dummy jack with a big red “don’t pull” sticker on should do it.
Personally I’d be more worried about switching my MS22 resonance matrix switch the wrong way. :omg:

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by stringtapper » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:51 am

What, you guys haven't already hard-wired the Even Out of Rings into the In L of Beads?????? Pffft.




j/k

It happened to me today too lol

But now I'm hyper-aware of it and will probably just always leave a shorty patched into In L.

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by Bitcat » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:55 am

tvparcable wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:08 am
mkdvb wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:22 am
Nutritional Zero wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:38 pm
I just had my first "where the fuck is that sound coming from" moment when Beads is unpatched while I re-route a patch through some other modules.

I'd prefer a key combo to activate this tbh, it's super frightening when you get hit by it for real.
I read this & then had 3 of these tonight for the first time! I think I'm with you -- it's pretty intrusive.
Imagine this happening during a live perfor- :waah:
There's a simple workaround for that, it's called pandemic, you just don't play live! :hihi:

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by 1n » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:28 pm

Cross-posting a question on Intellijel Shifty. Opinions/facts, please :)

I'm distributing pitch to three 1v sound sources, including Beads. Two are responding from the root note I tuned them to, but Beads (+ Seed) tracks what sounds like two octaves higher. Attenuator set at 12 noon.

What have I done? What is Beads doing?

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pichenettes
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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by pichenettes » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:35 pm

Is Beads in wavetable mode?

Is it processing an audio signal that is already pitched by that same V/O signal?

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by 1n » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:40 pm

pichenettes wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:35 pm
Is Beads in wavetable mode?

Is it processing an audio signal that is already pitched by that same V/O signal?
Yes, and no (just a pitch signal distributed by Shifty's 'shift register' circuit).

Edit:

You're right, of course. Yes, at one point I had a V/O signal from Rings going into Beads (ahem!). I removed that signal and carried on and didn't notice any change in the signal, because I added attenuation to reduce voltage.

Thank you for helping me think!

Edit edit:

Random pitch from Benjolin v2 Volts expander produces the same ultra-high pitch effect. The answer is to attenuate that wild source.

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by xkx » Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:24 am

I'm having problems with beads, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong or whether it is a defective model.

Basically patching the audio from my organelle synth, via a sound card to the to an input module. When going from wet 100% back to dry 100% there is this horrible droney noise, pulsating, like feedback is still going on eventhough feedback has been wound all the way down. I'm following the manual as per page 12.

Here is a video of it of the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgwqBkZ ... aniaShihab

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Muff McMuff
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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by Muff McMuff » Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:39 am

There is no sound on your video and you have feedback at 100% ie maximum.

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by brandonlogic » Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:40 am

xkx wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:24 am
I'm having problems with beads, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong or whether it is a defective model.

Basically patching the audio from my organelle synth, via a sound card to the to an input module. When going from wet 100% back to dry 100% there is this horrible droney noise, pulsating, like feedback is still going on eventhough feedback has been wound all the way down. I'm following the manual as per page 12.

Here is a video of it of the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgwqBkZ ... aniaShihab
It’s hard to tell from your video what’s going on. Your video is very quiet and noisy. You should send a video showing what your dry signal sounds like first than going to wet so we can hear the difference. Also make sure sure the entire module is in the frame..

It sounds like it’s just firing a slow grain here though. that’s normal behavior at a certain setting.

And as mentioned above, your feedback trimmer is all the way up!

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by xkx » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:52 pm

Sorry. Here is a better video, sorry for the computer fan hum



I am turning Beads on, no audio going through, and automatically there is this drone. The piano is the only audio I want to go through, but it somehow is registering other audio coming through, (as the input light is flashing right at the beginning, before I even play the piano). You can see at the end, when I go from 100% wet back to dry, that the input is not registering any audio any more, (unless I play the piano). Sometimes, it's the otherway around, the droney noise only happens 5 minutes after starting up Beads. I can't quite figure out what is going on. Hope that makes sense. (The feedback is all the way down).

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by Karl_Joseph » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:22 pm

xkx wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:52 pm
Sorry. Here is a better video, sorry for the computer fan hum



I am turning Beads on, no audio going through, and automatically there is this drone. The piano is the only audio I want to go through, but it somehow is registering other audio coming through, (as the input light is flashing right at the beginning, before I even play the piano). You can see at the end, when I go from 100% wet back to dry, that the input is not registering any audio any more, (unless I play the piano). Sometimes, it's the otherway around, the droney noise only happens 5 minutes after starting up Beads. I can't quite figure out what is going on. Hope that makes sense. (The feedback is all the way down).
Are you using a live mic on the piano? Can tell what you got going on, but I'm guessing it's room bleed or ambience in the microphone and beads auto gain is picking it up.

You just started a new trend: Bleeds into Beads.
- KARL

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by mkdvb » Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:25 pm

Bitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:55 am
There's a simple workaround for that, it's called pandemic, you just don't play live! :hihi:
So I used a mixer to isolate the reverb onto just grains w/ dry separate & I can see why you'd want them separate ... once I got close to diming the reverb, it starts to turn into this Eventide shimmer thing, around 4 o clock but normally, I've been keeping the reverb at noon or 1 o clock max because as you say, it starts to be too much w/ the dry signal in there. I guess it would have been cool if there was a little button between the dry/wet & reverb knobs to toggle wet or dry+wet send to reverb.

That said, I'm still happy with Emilie's design decision from a selfish standpoint since I can rig up insert/send easily enough.

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by Bitcat » Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:49 pm

mkdvb wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:25 pm
Bitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:55 am
There's a simple workaround for that, it's called pandemic, you just don't play live! :hihi:
So I used a mixer to isolate the reverb onto just grains w/ dry separate & I can see why you'd want them separate ... once I got close to diming the reverb, it starts to turn into this Eventide shimmer thing, around 4 o clock but normally, I've been keeping the reverb at noon or 1 o clock max because as you say, it starts to be too much w/ the dry signal in there. I guess it would have been cool if there was a little button between the dry/wet & reverb knobs to toggle wet or dry+wet send to reverb.

That said, I'm still happy with Emilie's design decision from a selfish standpoint since I can rig up insert/send easily enough.
Yeah exactly, it's not something necessary for everyone but I think it sounds better in most cases and is more convenient. My real problem is that most of the time I use samples that have been already recorded with room mics or added reverb, so adding more reverb just makes a mess and it would be great to set the reverb level on the wet sound directly from Beads, but there's a workaround at least!

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by drxcm » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:01 pm

xkx wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:52 pm
Sorry. Here is a better video, sorry for the computer fan hum



I am turning Beads on, no audio going through, and automatically there is this drone. The piano is the only audio I want to go through, but it somehow is registering other audio coming through, (as the input light is flashing right at the beginning, before I even play the piano). You can see at the end, when I go from 100% wet back to dry, that the input is not registering any audio any more, (unless I play the piano). Sometimes, it's the otherway around, the droney noise only happens 5 minutes after starting up Beads. I can't quite figure out what is going on. Hope that makes sense. (The feedback is all the way down).
The input light flashes when it is automatically gain staging. It’s in the manual. It will happen whenever a new input signal is plugged in. That’s why its happening when you switch on

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by Muff McMuff » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:44 pm

xkx wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:52 pm


I am turning Beads on, no audio going through, and automatically there is this drone. The piano is the only audio I want to go through, but it somehow is registering other audio coming through, (as the input light is flashing right at the beginning, before I even play the piano). You can see at the end, when I go from 100% wet back to dry, that the input is not registering any audio any more, (unless I play the piano). Sometimes, it's the otherway around, the droney noise only happens 5 minutes after starting up Beads. I can't quite figure out what is going on. Hope that makes sense. (The feedback is all the way down).
Does your beads operate normally when you patch in some sounds from the other modules in your rack? Or does it have the same issue you are having with the external sounds?

Beads can amplify external signals and auto adjust for it automatically but could your input level be really low, like to low?
From the manual below. Could you have manually set input gain and the module is now in that custom setting until you "long press A.." to set it back into auto detection?

From the manual........"When patch cables are inserted or removed, Beads monitors for five seconds the level of the incoming signal and adjusts the input gain accordingly, from +0dB to +32dB. The input level LED (2) blinks during this adjustment process. The input gain is chosen to leave some headroom, but in case of big level changes, a limiter kicks in.
One can manually restart the gain adjustment process by pressing and holding the audio quality selector button [A] for one second. Holding this button [A] while turning the feedback knob allows manual gain adjustments.
The manually-set gain is memorized and applied until a long press on [A] re-enables automatic gain control.

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Re: Mutable Instruments Beads (Clouds 2)

Post by zerodivide » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:16 am

I for one love the Reverb of Beads and wouldn't touch anything about it. There's some magic sweet spot around 85-90% CW that does some serious magic

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