CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

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Funky40
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CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by Funky40 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:48 am

i had planned to get me next a Flame quad CV recorder.
Thats one of the last little bits i miss to complete my modular. :hihi:


what i need is:
Beat synced recording and play options to record CVs as Loops and play them back in sync.
also non volatile memory.
the Flame Quad CV recorder seems fine on all this. Not seen the smaller flame CV recorder anywhere in stock.
originally i wanted the smaller one. small footprint would be a point ( for way better placing) ......then, just taking two modules


But now, since the 1010 micro bitbox was just announced i really wonder if i not better wait to get the microBB ?
since it has DC coupled inputs.
The restriction to only record over two inputs at a time seems not to be problem for me i´d suspect.
Its mostly to record hand wiggled CVs ! ......so, in fact one at a time. at least thats the idea !


i really miss the opportunity to jam-wiggle some manual CVs over many bars,
precisely performed in sync by my wiggle fingers ;) , recording it, and then precisely played back just by patching a trigger/reset (a clock ideally).


what do you Guys "who work with CV recorders" think ?


for completion:
( otherwise am i allready able to record CVs into my computer AND to play these files from the computer or from my bitbox if i´d wisehd.
but thats all way to "undirect")

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by Shledge » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:10 am

They'll both do the same job. The flame quad CV recorder is literally just a quad DC coupled sampler, the only difference is the micro bitbox can do it at a higher sampling frequency if you want audio too.

I own a quad CV recorder myself, it honestly does the job well and it can be triggered/synced too. It can also be "scanned" in a similar manner to the likes of MI Frames, where the playback position of the recording is CV controlled.

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by Funky40 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:34 am

Shledge wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:10 am
It can also be "scanned" in a similar manner to the likes of MI Frames, where the playback position of the recording is CV controlled.
ahhh wait: thats a point !

it might not play a major role for me for my "initially thought up uses",
buuut, thats definitly a useful feature.
This feature was completly out of my focus. Thanks !

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by mosorensen » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:52 am

Another small advantage of the FQ over a DC coupled sampler is that it can run in triggered mode, where it records and replays CVs at every trigger (it can be triggered fast, so it seems like continuous recording). It can then do longer recordings, and it stays in sync with the triggers, when the tempo changes. It would be difficult to do this with a DC coupled sampler.

One of my highlights with the FQ was a "fugue generator" that would randomly generate eight bars of "melody" (using Marbles) with FQ automatically recording the V/oct, and then it would replay the same notes the next eight bar using a different voice, over and over again. Good times.

That said, the Flame Quad does not have the most immediate interface, and it takes some experimentation with the triggers to get it in and out of recording and overdub modes at the right times. I think one of the modules currently missing is a CV recorder with a better interface and more editing / advanced features.
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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by Funky40 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:41 am

mosorensen wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:52 am
I think one of the modules currently missing is a CV recorder with a better interface and more editing / advanced features.
i think the same since years, and still think so ;)



i "think" the new micro Bitbox should also be capabale to do some funny triggered rec/play stuff.
I have the bitbox but was not diving into the "record by trigger" aspect so far.

yes, people were reporting that the flame quad is not super intuitiv at first.
That was the reason i was holding off so far.

Yes, i guess i have to jump on the Flame quad.
Never saw the Flame C3 everywhere in a shop ?......cause the idea was to start with one of those, and to add later a second one :despair:

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by orbita » Wed May 27, 2020 6:52 am

Also interested in a continuous CV recorder. Seems like most of them are quite old.

I've been wondering about a rossum assilimator or a Squid salmple for doing this but both big and possibly overkill but also give other sampling options.

I've got a bishops miscelany but being stepped is not ideal for my use cases.

That Flame Quad looks good but quite expensive and old.

These are the ones ive come across that do continuous CV recording.. What else is there?

Flame Quad
Flame C3
Modcan Control 66B
Mocan cv recorder
Soundmachines light strip https://www.sound-machines.it/product/ls1lightstrip/
intellijel planar 2
EMW pot action recorder https://www.electronicmusicworks.com/eu ... order.html
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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by Sandrine » Wed May 27, 2020 7:21 am

+RIT_M
Not it's primary function but records at 1Kps for 2 minutes volatile, about 30 seconds X 3 permanent memory

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by brandonlogic » Wed May 27, 2020 9:32 am

I haven’t actually tried it but planar2 should be able to do this.
You can record and playback joystick movements and loop and sync to a clock. Sine it has cv inputs to modulate the joystick, I’m assuming it would record the the cv at those inputs and you could use it as a cv recorder. I’ll have to try it!

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by orbita » Wed May 27, 2020 9:54 am

yeah that was one i listed - it definitely looks good, 6 outputs too and 2 dimensions for recording. not sure how it would feel to use a joystick compared with a knob though.
also the light strip could be interesting since you can jump to points immediately.

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by orbita » Wed May 27, 2020 9:55 am

Sandrine wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:21 am
+RIT_M
Not it's primary function but records at 1Kps for 2 minutes volatile, about 30 seconds X 3 permanent memory
thanks - I was trying to remember that one. I've heard though that the interface is really weird. Do you have experience of it.

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by brandonlogic » Wed May 27, 2020 1:25 pm

Don’t know if it can record external cv or not but the tetrapad/tete combo is great for recording fader movements and loop/sync them

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by ersatzplanet » Thu May 28, 2020 12:29 pm

If you can afford it, the best CV recorder module I can think of is the Analogue Systems RS-450. It is a quad unit that is basically a DC sampler that can do 16bit samples up to 14.K sample rate (yes, it can do audio). All voltages are stored with 16-bit precision so the total recording time available depends upon the type of sequence, the number of channels used and the sample rate selected. The module is supplied with a 4GB memory card that, at the fastest sample rate of 14kHz, offers approximately 40 minutes of real-time recording, and almost unlimited step-time recording. The sequence memories are non-volatile. They are retained when the RS-450 is switched off and when the SD memory card is removed from the unit.

The drawback? The thing is not cheap here in the USA. Basically $1300 for one.
AS RS-450 CV REcorder.png
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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by orbita » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:20 am

Enormous too!
ersatzplanet wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:29 pm
If you can afford it, the best CV recorder module I can think of is the Analogue Systems RS-450. It is a quad unit that is basically a DC sampler that can do 16bit samples up to 14.K sample rate (yes, it can do audio). All voltages are stored with 16-bit precision so the total recording time available depends upon the type of sequence, the number of channels used and the sample rate selected. The module is supplied with a 4GB memory card that, at the fastest sample rate of 14kHz, offers approximately 40 minutes of real-time recording, and almost unlimited step-time recording. The sequence memories are non-volatile. They are retained when the RS-450 is switched off and when the SD memory card is removed from the unit.

The drawback? The thing is not cheap here in the USA. Basically $1300 for one.

AS RS-450 CV REcorder.png

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by fwmbk » Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:56 pm

Would anyone be interested in applying "granular synthesis" to recorded control voltage samples and wiggling the knobbies with such? Seems like a good idea to me for cacophony with some grains of control.

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by grrrwaaa » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:55 pm

fwmbk wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:56 pm
Would anyone be interested in applying "granular synthesis" to recorded control voltage samples and wiggling the knobbies with such? Seems like a good idea to me for cacophony with some grains of control.
That sounds fun. Definitely one of the things that a microcontroller-based programmable module would be good for. A CV recorder was on my list of things to try with Oopsy, and I was thinking of treating it like a beatslicing kind if thing, but now you suggest granulating it I definitely want to try that!

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by fwmbk » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:31 pm

I'm going to be exploring what this BitBox Micro can do - as it has 2 DC coupled recording inputs and slew of outputs - so, especially interesting is if I use an XY pair of CV as with a joystick controller to record movement samples that can be played back on pairs of outputs - to control different things... So, binaural isn't a concept just for audio rate signal, how about CONTROL too?

It also includes a simplified granular function but I'm not sure how well it would work in real time operation - it seems like all i'll really get is pseudo-randomized copies of micro-shifted modulation since it's tiny slices of a slowly moving waveform - the real magic of granular is modulating the individual grains with functions like spreading them apart by pitch or reversing playback of certain ones but not others (quantizing the grains into groups for their own batches of manipulation), et cetera...

Maybe the recording needs to be several channels of CV - envelope and lfo - summed to one output for sample recording? I think using a sophisticated dedicated granular synthesizer like Tasty Chips GR-1 would be more useful in this study. But I will try and if it does something interesting I'll share a recording and a how-to, since there doesn't seem to be anything other than a handful of ModWiggler posts for this topic.

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by Peng33 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:41 pm

For something small, the Antimatter Audio Brain Seed can record CV as well, if you can find one, and I am guessing the Squarp Hermod also can do this, because the non-Euro version, the Pyramid can do it.

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by M78 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:08 am

fwmbk wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:31 pm
I'm going to be exploring what this BitBox Micro can do - as it has 2 DC coupled recording inputs and slew of outputs - so, especially interesting is if I use an XY pair of CV as with a joystick controller to record movement samples that can be played back on pairs of outputs - to control different things... So, binaural isn't a concept just for audio rate signal, how about CONTROL too?

It also includes a simplified granular function but I'm not sure how well it would work in real time operation - it seems like all i'll really get is pseudo-randomized copies of micro-shifted modulation since it's tiny slices of a slowly moving waveform - the real magic of granular is modulating the individual grains with functions like spreading them apart by pitch or reversing playback of certain ones but not others (quantizing the grains into groups for their own batches of manipulation), et cetera...

Maybe the recording needs to be several channels of CV - envelope and lfo - summed to one output for sample recording? I think using a sophisticated dedicated granular synthesizer like Tasty Chips GR-1 would be more useful in this study. But I will try and if it does something interesting I'll share a recording and a how-to, since there doesn't seem to be anything other than a handful of ModWiggler posts for this topic.
please do! Very curious about this.

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by wavejockey » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:30 am

now that (AKAI) MPCs have added USB audio in/out, we should be able to record/sample DC too, providing your interface is DC coupled

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Re: CV Recorder OR DC coupled sampler ? ( Flame quad vs. micro Bitbox )

Post by bmoussay » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:48 am

Tetrapad + tete is also quite powerful. Sequencable and loopable (loopy) with many sync options. I use it live for movement cv recording it works great. Light strip/lightplane works good but recording time is quite limited. Planar is great and powerful. The flame knob recorder works great I use it a lot but have never experienced the sync possibilities I just record and playback free running loops. Hermod is great also with amazing possibilities to mangle your recording with fx but it has to be clocked or to run over it’s internal clock and recordind time is limited to 64 “steps” (the recording is not stepped itself but a sequence lasts 64 steps) and thus depends of Hermod’s tempo or ext clock tempo.

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