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New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

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r05c03
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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by r05c03 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:31 pm

Got z5000 the other day. I am little undewhelemed. It seems like an adequate effect module. Maybe it is because I am not clear on exactly what the fidelity control does?
Gear List: Elektron Octatrack, Elektron A4,Microbrute, Bass Station, Rings Braids, Pitts Ring Mod, Pitts Osc, Echophon, Intillegel uFold / uMIDI, PNW2, Doepfer 138-c, 119, Tiptop Z4000, Maleko Fade / 8NU8R

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by TTHX » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:39 am

r05c03 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:31 pm
Got z5000 the other day. I am little undewhelemed. It seems like an adequate effect module. Maybe it is because I am not clear on exactly what the fidelity control does?
From the manual:
Fidelity - Is a DSP manipulation technique developed originally for the Z-DSP and brought to this line of effect modules as well. Inside the module is an analog VCO that clocks the DSP chip, the use of an analog clock (not a digitally generated clock) not only contributes to the overall organic sound quality of the module, but also lets you take the effects into new sonic territories with variation of the clock speed. The Fidelity knob in will alter the frequency of the VCO clock with sound effects ranging from pitch shifting and down to total degraded digital noise.

Why is it underwhelming? What were you expecting from it?

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r05c03
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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by r05c03 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:19 am

What is new sonic territories? What is the clock rate and how fast is it? It seems to just smear sounds more than anything else. I guess I think it sounds a little “thin”.
Gear List: Elektron Octatrack, Elektron A4,Microbrute, Bass Station, Rings Braids, Pitts Ring Mod, Pitts Osc, Echophon, Intillegel uFold / uMIDI, PNW2, Doepfer 138-c, 119, Tiptop Z4000, Maleko Fade / 8NU8R

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by continuum » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:39 am

r05c03 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:19 am
What is new sonic territories? What is the clock rate and how fast is it? It seems to just smear sounds more than anything else. I guess I think it sounds a little “thin”.
Turn the Fidelity control clockwise for higher clock rate (max is about 32k) and counter-clockwise to decrease the rate down to a few hundred Hz. Lowering the Fidelity control will make the delays longer but also the overall sound darker which can be useful or not. For the brightest full range sound, keep the Fidelity all the way to the right.

The FAQ has more info on Fidelity vs Time:
Question: What is the difference between Time and Fidelity CV?

Answer: The Fidelity control changes the speed of the digital processing sample rate. This can have a similar effect to changing the Time control of delays but the important difference is that Fidelity also changes the entire processing including filter cutoffs, LFO speeds, etc. Lowering Fidelity will increase the delay time of a delay but also lower the cutoff of a low pass filter and slow down an LFO modulating the delay line. The Time control will only change the delay time of that same delay.
edit to add:

The z5000 is intended to cover a wide range of pretty standard effects for all types of music so it tends to have more 'bread and butter' algorithms instead of heavier processing that create more limited special effects. We essentially created it after hearing years of 'I love my Z-DSP but just need a delay/reverb/chorus and 28HP is too much space.'

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'thin'?
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

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r05c03
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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by r05c03 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:45 pm

Idk. It is fine, just not as lush I had hoped. At least so far. It is a very subjective thing.
Gear List: Elektron Octatrack, Elektron A4,Microbrute, Bass Station, Rings Braids, Pitts Ring Mod, Pitts Osc, Echophon, Intillegel uFold / uMIDI, PNW2, Doepfer 138-c, 119, Tiptop Z4000, Maleko Fade / 8NU8R

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by Duplan » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:26 pm

Hi everyone !
The other day I had Wogglebug smooth output modulating both Fidelity CV on Echoz and Speed CV on Qu Bit Nebulae V2. When I toggled the CV switch on Echoz to have Time modulated (instead of Fidelity), I noticed it also changed the Speed on Nebulae... Now what I mean ? Like there was some CV bleeding OUT of the Echoz CV input...

Any clue on that ?

Cheers !

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by tta » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:44 am

Duplan wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:26 pm
Hi everyone !
The other day I had Wogglebug smooth output modulating both Fidelity CV on Echoz and Speed CV on Qu Bit Nebulae V2. When I toggled the CV switch on Echoz to have Time modulated (instead of Fidelity), I noticed it also changed the Speed on Nebulae... Now what I mean ? Like there was some CV bleeding OUT of the Echoz CV input...

Any clue on that ?

Cheers !
The input resistance for Time and Fidelity are not equal, so you see a slight drop or increase in the Wogglebug output when you switch. That is normal.
Gur
Tiptop Audio

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by jones » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:23 pm

Really loving this Echoz module, shimmer delay is gorgeous, considering getting a second one.
continuum wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:02 pm
jones wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:17 pm
Anybody else getting noise/pops/crackles from the echoz module when the fidelity knob is turned to the left from 12 o clock?
At the very extreme counter-clockwise Fidelity setting the noise gets very pronounced which is expected for a sampling rate that low. That should only happen below around 9 o'clock on the pot. Modulation with CV can drive the rate so low that the DSP chip turns off and outputs DC.

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by continuum » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:15 pm

jones wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:23 pm
Really loving this Echoz module, shimmer delay is gorgeous, considering getting a second one.
Nice to hear! ZVERB has even more Shimmer algorithms to explore.
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by Arson » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:14 pm



Open on youtube if you want to preview modes through description

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by m-m » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:42 pm

Just started to play around the ZVERB and ECHOZ. I would never have noticed that the output is lower if I didn't know it – works fine in a patch. Plus it actually distorts nicely when overloading the input.


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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by Franktree » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:19 pm

Anyone know when these will be back in stock? I've had one on order with Perfect Circuit since Jan 1, but am still waiting.

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tta
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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by tta » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:11 am

Franktree wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:19 pm
Anyone know when these will be back in stock? I've had one on order with Perfect Circuit since Jan 1, but am still waiting.
I’m sorry for delays, we have a combination of high demand but also longer than usual time to get the parts that goes into these effect modules. We should have more ready to ship by April 15.
Gur
Tiptop Audio

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Franktree
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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by Franktree » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:59 pm

tta wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:11 am
Franktree wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:19 pm
Anyone know when these will be back in stock? I've had one on order with Perfect Circuit since Jan 1, but am still waiting.
I’m sorry for delays, we have a combination of high demand but also longer than usual time to get the parts that goes into these effect modules. We should have more ready to ship by April 15.
No worries. Delays are all that can be expected at times like this. Just helpful to have an update. Thanks.

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by Duplan » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:59 pm

tta wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:44 am
Duplan wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:26 pm
Hi everyone !
The other day I had Wogglebug smooth output modulating both Fidelity CV on Echoz and Speed CV on Qu Bit Nebulae V2. When I toggled the CV switch on Echoz to have Time modulated (instead of Fidelity), I noticed it also changed the Speed on Nebulae... Now what I mean ? Like there was some CV bleeding OUT of the Echoz CV input...

Any clue on that ?

Cheers !
The input resistance for Time and Fidelity are not equal, so you see a slight drop or increase in the Wogglebug output when you switch. That is normal.

Thanks for the explanation.

I've noticed something really weird on my Echoz this time.. Feedback and Filters CV inputs are... inverted ! My fback input is actually on the left and the filter input on the right :hihi:

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by Hek » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:14 am

Ppl happy with the sound of these? Owned an effect with the FV-1 chip (flame fx-6) and it _really_ sucked. So i have my doubts with these.

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by zvukoprocessor » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:44 am

Here is my Zverb video:
[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

Cheers!

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by r05c03 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:30 pm

Hek wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:14 am
Ppl happy with the sound of these? Owned an effect with the FV-1 chip (flame fx-6) and it _really_ sucked. So i have my doubts with these.
See my comment above.
Gear List: Elektron Octatrack, Elektron A4,Microbrute, Bass Station, Rings Braids, Pitts Ring Mod, Pitts Osc, Echophon, Intillegel uFold / uMIDI, PNW2, Doepfer 138-c, 119, Tiptop Z4000, Maleko Fade / 8NU8R

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by outspacer » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:44 pm

Can anyone comment on how well Echoz works for chorus and flange sounds? Looks like z5000 has more options for this, but I'm primarily looking for a delay. Decent flange/chorus would be a really nice bonus though.

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by Hek » Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:54 am

r05c03 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:30 pm
Hek wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:14 am
Ppl happy with the sound of these? Owned an effect with the FV-1 chip (flame fx-6) and it _really_ sucked. So i have my doubts with these.
See my comment above.
You dont seem that happy :waah: Some demos do sound pretty decent though... hm though one.

What alternatives is there in max 8hp. This, Milky way and pico dsp, something else?

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by Transistor » Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:26 am

zvukoprocessor wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:44 am
Here is my Zverb video:
[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

Cheers!
To my ears, that sounds very nice.

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by continuum » Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:03 am

outspacer wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:44 pm
Can anyone comment on how well Echoz works for chorus and flange sounds? Looks like z5000 has more options for this, but I'm primarily looking for a delay. Decent flange/chorus would be a really nice bonus though.
ECHOZ has no dedicated Chorus or Flange program but some of the algorithms could cover that territory in their own way:

Tape Chorus Echo - turn the delay time and feedback down and it will be a Chorus, but it also runs through the filter and tape saturation sections so it will not be a super clean one.

Tape Diffuse Chorus Echo - Uses diffusion as a Chorus type sound so it will smear the sound more than typical Chorus

Tape Wobbly/Wobble - Chorus like wow/flutter of the tape with a 'degraded' sound.

Digital Short BBD - can do flange with external LFO modulation of Time or Fidelity especially nice with some feedback. Mono.

Digital Diffuse Delay - Any of the diffusion delays will have some modulation in them to spread out the delay over time which can be similar to Chorus.

Dual Microshift Delay - slightly detuned pitch shifting gives a nice stereo spread and is a great thickener. The pitch shift is in the feedback path so you can get some pretty extreme bending of the sound.

Any of the delays set to a short/zero time and modulated can make a Chorus/Flange and you might need a lot of external attenuation/offset to set the range. Modulating the Fidelity control is more like an analog BBD compared to Time modulation.
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by señor-bling » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:29 pm

Received my Zverb today, spent a few hours with it and I must say, so far it's been a pleasant surprise after some of the comments here. The fidelity control is actually quite interesting. Doesn't work well for every single preset, I think, but where it does it's great for just slightly strange and dark tones. At least, that's how I guess I'm gonna use it. All in all enough variety, some are flashy, but most are simply useful presets. A CVable mix would have been nice though.

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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by outspacer » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:02 pm

continuum wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:03 am
outspacer wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:44 pm
Can anyone comment on how well Echoz works for chorus and flange sounds? Looks like z5000 has more options for this, but I'm primarily looking for a delay. Decent flange/chorus would be a really nice bonus though.
ECHOZ has no dedicated Chorus or Flange program but some of the algorithms could cover that territory in their own way:
Great, thanks for the explanation!

continuum
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Re: New FX modules from Tiptop Audio - ZVERB ECHOZ Z5000

Post by continuum » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:29 am

A 'Superbooth' video of sound demos for all 3 modules:

Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

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