Frap Tools USTA

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
Franktree
Common Wiggler
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:06 pm

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Franktree » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:53 pm

New USTA owner and I'm having weird issues clocking it externally. I'm clocking from Pam just normally, nothing fancy. And when I use the ratio control (so it's multiplying the clock) the clock gets all weird, it's almost like there's an LFO controlling the clock, so that it speeds up and slows down (including momentarily pausing) continually. When I do the same thing, but with the internal clock--same exact settings, nothing changed except going from external to internal clock--it responds normally. I thought about just using USTA as my master clock, but as far as I can tell, there's no clock output. And besides, I'd rather use Pam as my master clock.

Is this something anyone else has run into? Am I doing something wrong somehow?

Here's a video of what's it's doing:


closedLoop
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:01 am
Location: nyc

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by closedLoop » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:09 pm

Franktree wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:53 pm

Is this something anyone else has run into? Am I doing something wrong somehow?

Here's a video of what's it's doing:
That is weird.

I've never had that happen with USTA, and I only run it externally clocked from PNW. I really only ever use /2 and x2 of the PNW clock within USTA, so maybe it's an issue with faster clocks?

Have you tried changing the pulse width in PNW?
Are you running the latest firmware on USTA?

EDIT:
I know you said that it's a straight PNW clock, but, rewatching the vid, it really looks like USTA trying to sync with an irregular clock. It looks like it's trying to sync to a euclidean clock, or some other modded clock signal.

User avatar
hawkfuzz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2533
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by hawkfuzz » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:37 pm

I have this issue at first with clocking and then it levels out. It usually takes less time if I stop and start again. It’s annoying but I’m sure I need to play with ppqn settings.
THUMPR BC SC

User avatar
Franktree
Common Wiggler
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:06 pm

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Franktree » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:04 pm

closedLoop wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:09 pm
Franktree wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:53 pm

Is this something anyone else has run into? Am I doing something wrong somehow?

Here's a video of what's it's doing:
That is weird.

I've never had that happen with USTA, and I only run it externally clocked from PNW. I really only ever use /2 and x2 of the PNW clock within USTA, so maybe it's an issue with faster clocks?

Have you tried changing the pulse width in PNW?
Are you running the latest firmware on USTA?

EDIT:
I know you said that it's a straight PNW clock, but, rewatching the vid, it really looks like USTA trying to sync with an irregular clock. It looks like it's trying to sync to a euclidean clock, or some other modded clock signal.
Stupid user error. :doh: You were basically right. I had set the output of Pams I was using to a random wave instead of a pulse wave. Set to a pulse wave, works fine now!

User avatar
BaloErets
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1284
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:00 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Contact:

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by BaloErets » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:09 pm

Franktree wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:04 pm
closedLoop wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:09 pm
Franktree wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:53 pm

Is this something anyone else has run into? Am I doing something wrong somehow?

Here's a video of what's it's doing:
That is weird.

I've never had that happen with USTA, and I only run it externally clocked from PNW. I really only ever use /2 and x2 of the PNW clock within USTA, so maybe it's an issue with faster clocks?

Have you tried changing the pulse width in PNW?
Are you running the latest firmware on USTA?

EDIT:
I know you said that it's a straight PNW clock, but, rewatching the vid, it really looks like USTA trying to sync with an irregular clock. It looks like it's trying to sync to a euclidean clock, or some other modded clock signal.
Stupid user error. :doh: You were basically right. I had set the output of Pams I was using to a random wave instead of a pulse wave. Set to a pulse wave, works fine now!
Glad you got that sorted!
Just to note, although there is no dedicated clock output on USTA, you can create a clock output if you have one of the gate tracks not in use. I often reserve one of the gate outs on track for as a clock output.

closedLoop
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:01 am
Location: nyc

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by closedLoop » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:14 pm

BaloErets wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:09 pm

Glad you got that sorted!
Just to note, although there is no dedicated clock output on USTA, you can create a clock output if you have one of the gate tracks not in use. I often reserve one of the gate outs on track for as a clock output.
That's a good point. Even if the stage lengths aren't 1, you can always set the racheting of each stage to the same number as the stage length, and get an even clock pulse.

User avatar
MossGarden
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 479
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: Somewhere

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by MossGarden » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:12 am

Franktree wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:53 pm
New USTA owner and I'm having weird issues clocking it externally. I'm clocking from Pam just normally, nothing fancy. And when I use the ratio control (so it's multiplying the clock) the clock gets all weird, it's almost like there's an LFO controlling the clock, so that it speeds up and slows down (including momentarily pausing) continually. When I do the same thing, but with the internal clock--same exact settings, nothing changed except going from external to internal clock--it responds normally. I thought about just using USTA as my master clock, but as far as I can tell, there's no clock output. And besides, I'd rather use Pam as my master clock.

Is this something anyone else has run into? Am I doing something wrong somehow?

Here's a video of what's it's doing:

I find patching a x1 pams clock into Usta's clock input, then a second pams output set to 'ON' with usta's aux target set to Run4 gives the most stable behaviour. From here you can set timing ratios for each USTA track easily. I had timing issues with Pams early on, usta would need to play catchup to the clock for instance, or I'd need to ratio things in my head so that they locked together, since working this way it's been tight.

User avatar
Whatisvalis
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:54 pm

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Whatisvalis » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:14 pm

I also do the same as Mossgarden and it works great.

Only issue I've noticed is the BPM display on USTA is usually off my 1 compared BPM set on Pam's.

User avatar
Franktree
Common Wiggler
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:06 pm

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Franktree » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:43 pm

Thanks for the clocking advice, all! Looking forward to trying it out.

User avatar
BaloErets
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1284
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:00 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Contact:

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by BaloErets » Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:19 pm

So I have really dived deep into the USTA now that i had a bit of vacation time, and I'm loving it more and more everyday. It's so playable and so fun to jam with.

While jamming this evening with Phase-shifting identical tracks somewhat in the Steve Reich domain, I thought it could be really cool if there was a way to phase-shift independent layers of a track. In it's current state, you hold down the track number and turn the main encoder to shift all layers of a stage, but imagine if you could hold down CVA and turn the encoder to phase-shift only the CVA layer while all the other layers don't move. Even cooler would be if you could hold down multiple buttons to phase-shift more than one layer, while ignoring others. So say you hold down CVA and the stage-length button while you turn the encoder, you phase-shift both CVA and the stage-length of that stage, but the others are ignored.

User avatar
fruitsnake
Common Wiggler
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:56 pm
Location: Brooklyn

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by fruitsnake » Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:34 pm

BaloErets wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:19 pm
So I have really dived deep into the USTA now that i had a bit of vacation time, and I'm loving it more and more everyday. It's so playable and so fun to jam with.

While jamming this evening with Phase-shifting identical tracks somewhat in the Steve Reich domain, I thought it could be really cool if there was a way to phase-shift independent layers of a track. In it's current state, you hold down the track number and turn the main encoder to shift all layers of a stage, but imagine if you could hold down CVA and turn the encoder to phase-shift only the CVA layer while all the other layers don't move. Even cooler would be if you could hold down multiple buttons to phase-shift more than one layer, while ignoring others. So say you hold down CVA and the stage-length button while you turn the encoder, you phase-shift both CVA and the stage-length of that stage, but the others are ignored.
:hail: Brilliant! This would be amazing!

User avatar
virtualpt
Common Wiggler
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 9:19 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by virtualpt » Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:23 am

egon77 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:41 am
I've put in a feature request for a simpler button combo for switching patterns on all tracks. The current button combo is at least 4-5 button presses. Hold set, press encoders for pattern start and end then double tap shift. I find it's hard to perform this function quickly, and quite hard to do with one hand. Often times I want to do something else simultaneously with my other hand, like mute/unmute a drum and it's quite hard to perform before the sequence makes the round. Does anyone agree here?

Perhaps, it's just my personal workflow. I tend to stack sequences based on the pattern number. So I'm often performing the all-tracks pattern switch button combo.
Yes, I totally agree. I emailed them today about the same thing. Just got my Usta yesterday. Really loving it, but this should be so much simpler to do.

User avatar
taylor12k
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:35 pm
Location: pound ridge, ny

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by taylor12k » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:20 pm

i got an Usta last week to try it out against my Eloquencer.. in my search for a main sequencer that i really gel with. i can say i really gelled with the Usta right out of the box. i find it easier and more fun to use than the Eloquencer.

however! unless i am mistaken about this, i might have to return (or sell if control won't take a return) it.... but it seems to have that old "problem" where it continues to send out CV information even when there are no gates present... so you can't use it for sounds that have any sort of decay or release on the envelope... as the pitch will change during rests and in between gates...

this seemed to be the way older analog sequencer worked but wasn't a very practical way of doing things lately..after the Metropolis updated its firmware years ago to fix this and other sequencers like the Stillson Hammer 3 and Eloquencer that i've used don't exhibit this behavior.

is there any way around this with Usta? or is it destined to only be used for very short sounds?

help! if it can be done! thanks

taylor

closedLoop
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:01 am
Location: nyc

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by closedLoop » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:33 pm

taylor12k wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:20 pm
i got an Usta last week to try it out against my Eloquencer.. in my search for a main sequencer that i really gel with. i can say i really gelled with the Usta right out of the box. i find it easier and more fun to use than the Eloquencer.

however! unless i am mistaken about this, i might have to return (or sell if control won't take a return) it.... but it seems to have that old "problem" where it continues to send out CV information even when there are no gates present... so you can't use it for sounds that have any sort of decay or release on the envelope... as the pitch will change during rests and in between gates...

this seemed to be the way older analog sequencer worked but wasn't a very practical way of doing things lately..after the Metropolis updated its firmware years ago to fix this and other sequencers like the Stillson Hammer 3 and Eloquencer that i've used don't exhibit this behavior.

is there any way around this with Usta? or is it destined to only be used for very short sounds?

help! if it can be done! thanks

taylor
You want USTA to not output CV when the Gate for that stage is off? Or do you want it to hold the previous CV value during stages where there is no gate?

I don't have USTA in front of me, but if you want it to hold the previous CV value, you can skip that stage. If you're in the CV track, and you click the encoder for the stage until the LED is red, the then USTA will skip that stage, even though it's active, and retain the previous CV value.

User avatar
taylor12k
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:35 pm
Location: pound ridge, ny

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by taylor12k » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:40 pm

phew! thank you! i knew there must have been a way to do it.. on such a full featured sequencer. i thought about the colored modes for the CV channels.. but i thought those were only for probability.

** edit **

i realize i was mistaking channel A B C D colors modes with STAGE color modes.

** / edit **

as for not outputting CV, or holding CV... i'm not sure there's a practical difference... as long as the pitch doesn't change between gate steps... and your method worked perfectly.

i'll have to go through the manual again now to read up on the different modes/lights of the CV stages..

thank you for the quick reply!
closedLoop wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:33 pm

You want USTA to not output CV when the Gate for that stage is off? Or do you want it to hold the previous CV value during stages where there is no gate?

I don't have USTA in front of me, but if you want it to hold the previous CV value, you can skip that stage. If you're in the CV track, and you click the encoder for the stage until the LED is red, the then USTA will skip that stage, even though it's active, and retain the previous CV value.

closedLoop
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:01 am
Location: nyc

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by closedLoop » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:24 pm

taylor12k wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:40 pm

i'll have to go through the manual again now to read up on the different modes/lights of the CV stages..

thank you for the quick reply!
No problem!

Because there's 2 CV tracks and 2 Gate tracks per channel on USTA, the gate and CV aren't tied to one another, and I like that design decision, even if it means a little more work with USTA.

Sometimes when I'm using USTA, I'll have traditional 'pairs' of voices per channel, where one gate track of USTA will be a close parallel to what's going on in a CV track. Other times, I find that each CV and Gate track really ends up doing it's own unique thing. I really like that openness in the basic design.

User avatar
BaloErets
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1284
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:00 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Contact:

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by BaloErets » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:31 pm

For anyone interested, my first play with USTA at audio-rates. Not disappointed at all!

http://www.reverbnation.com/open_graph/song/32060856

User avatar
virtualpt
Common Wiggler
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 9:19 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by virtualpt » Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:15 am

taylor12k wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:40 pm
i'll have to go through the manual again now to read up on the different modes/lights of the CV stages..
I've only had my Usta a couple of days, but printing out the cheat sheet really helps. http://frap.tools/docs/USTA_CheatSheet.pdf

PS. Love 12k, thanks for all the good music/art/sound :love:

User avatar
GauthierM
Common Wiggler
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:08 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by GauthierM » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:28 am

Could someone explain to me the difference between a classic 8 track sequencer (ie. eloquencer: 8 gates, 8 cv) and this "2x4" CV and gates in USTA ?
I understand there are two channels for each, as per the layout, but can these four pairs of cv and gates be set independently ?

User avatar
Whatisvalis
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:54 pm

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Whatisvalis » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:38 am

GauthierM wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:28 am
Could someone explain to me the difference between a classic 8 track sequencer (ie. eloquencer: 8 gates, 8 cv) and this "2x4" CV and gates in USTA ?
I understand there are two channels for each, as per the layout, but can these four pairs of cv and gates be set independently ?
Yes - Track 1 CV A, CV B, Gate A, and Gate B all have Independant sequences but share Stage length.

User avatar
taylor12k
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:35 pm
Location: pound ridge, ny

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by taylor12k » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:37 am

thank you! and thank you for the cheat sheet.. i'm printing it out...

boy.. how have we got here? where we need 7-page cheat sheets for eurorack modules...!
virtualpt wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:15 am

I've only had my Usta a couple of days, but printing out the cheat sheet really helps. http://frap.tools/docs/USTA_CheatSheet.pdf

PS. Love 12k, thanks for all the good music/art/sound :love:

User avatar
virtualpt
Common Wiggler
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 9:19 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by virtualpt » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:30 am

taylor12k wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:37 am

boy.. how have we got here? where we need 7-page cheat sheets for eurorack modules...!
LOL - I have been finding with Usta, though, that it can be really simple like an old time 16 step analogue sequencer. Then you can get more in depth if you need to.

The short videos on Frap's site (bottom of page) are helpful https://frap.tools/products/usta/

Also Loopop's video


Matt_L
Common Wiggler
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 10:24 am
Location: Maryland, US
Contact:

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Matt_L » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:23 pm

Anyone have any issue with LED bleed? There seems to be LED bleed on every encoder on my model. Works just fine otherwise but makes it hard to rely on encoders for determining settings.

Frap offered to take a look at it but I'd have to ship the module from the US. :(

Thanks!

Edit: in this picture the encoders are set to 1, except the leftmost encoder which is at 2

Image

User avatar
Franktree
Common Wiggler
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:06 pm

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Franktree » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:06 pm

My unit is similar. Your bleed seems a little worse than mine, maybe? But it could just be the photo. But I definitely have bleed. It's usually possible to tell where the light is supposed to be and where it's not, but it can be a little tricky at times.

tumblz
Common Wiggler
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by tumblz » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:17 pm

I have this same problem with the light bleed.

In fact, I'm on my second USTA. I returned the first one, but the next batch of USTAs had the same problem. I decided the shipping to Italy is too much hassle and risk, so I'm just gonna work around it and eat the small discount if I decide to sell it later. Fortunately, the screen displays note/pitch as you turn the knob. Overall, I think the uniqueness and workflow of the model make it worth the tradeoff. I don't see a comparable alternative for myself anyway.

The bigger problem as I see it (and others have pointed out) is that the whole color/mode switching thing takes awhile to become instinctive. But I like that the module is reasonably compact and I just need to step up my game. Frap Tools ethos is definitely that you gotta put in work to understand and master the interface.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”