Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by damon » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:23 am

mixxalot wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:54 pm
Sometimes I send it to Rings and Marbles for a lot of interesting textures.
In which way do you send it to marbles? Which parameters do you usually modulate with the Trident? Pretty curious ;)

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by mixxalot » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:32 pm

Great question, I usually use the left x parameter but sometimes the right side of Marbles for more random variation. I still need to try more things out as Marbles itself is very deep module.
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by LunaticSound » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:29 am

I assume, there is a misunderstanding?

Or do you really modulate Marbles with the Trident?And not the other way round?

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by Aiyn Zahev » Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:09 pm

I got mine just yesterday so keep that in mind, but It's a wonderfully made module. I think Rossum is known for that by now, but in person it really is excellent. Edit I really need to play with Zing and FM some more.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by soundsculptor » Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:30 am

kxx303 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:23 pm
I want to share this collection of textures here.



You can click through the album to get an idea how the Trident can sound: it is the only source here. Mostly raw and unprocessed: but need to mention a bit of LP filtering (VCF1E) and granularization (Morphagene) plus overdubbing and layering via DLD. Basically all modules on this recording are the same as on the video in previous post.
nice!
don´t critisize it - equalize it

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by Electro Something » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:54 pm

Has anybody patched their Trident to a Harmonaig? I assume it would really well?

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by soundsculptor » Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:13 am

This module is fantastic! Try it as LFO ensemble, zing works as well!
don´t critisize it - equalize it

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by Cornerman » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:04 am

Just got this in, just touched the surface but really like the sounds so far. Just need to get my head around it.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by Nonlocal » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:41 pm

Electro Something wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:54 pm
Has anybody patched their Trident to a Harmonaig? I assume it would really well?
All the time! Harmonaig and Trident both have really great tracking so they do pair well. For some reason, there is an tuning offset between the two that doesn't show up when used with my other VCOs. Though I'm not sure if that's because my Harmonaig is pretty old and has not been calibrated in a long time.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by Electro Something » Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:00 pm

I see a lot of people saying the Trident isn't a true complex oscillator - not like I really care because the Trident is just amazeballs. But what other modules would you need to make it a complex oscillator? Wavefolder & VCA & ?? And how would you patch it up?

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by advrsry » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:22 am

It's just that it doesn't have the Buchla style CO configuration of carrier osc, mod osc, and wavefolder.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by studioutopia » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:04 am

Electro Something wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:00 pm
I see a lot of people saying the Trident isn't a true complex oscillator - not like I really care because the Trident is just amazeballs. But what other modules would you need to make it a complex oscillator? Wavefolder & VCA & ?? And how would you patch it up?
The Zing modulation feature is a departure from the Buchla concept. It is similar though.
If you added a bunch of VCAs you could patch together your own modulation bus. Add a wavefolder and you could do Buchla-style Complex Oscillator stuff.
Patch this:
- Mix the output of the two modulation oscillators into a VCA (the modulation bus).
- Optional: Use additional VCAs to create control the modulator mix the if you want CV control over the mix amounts.
- Patch/mult the output of the modulation bus VCA into the Linear FM, PW mod of the Carrier VCO, and/or the wavefolder amount. With one CV you can control the effect of the modulators on all of these aspects of the carrier and wavefolder (timbre).
- Patch the output of the Carrier oscillator into the wavefolder, and the output of the wavefolder to your mix/speakers.

One cool thing about Trident is that it can be patched up like a 3-operator FM voice, like the Hertz Donut MkIII.
With Zing - you can definitely can do things you cannot do with the traditional Complex Oscillator.
If I had the HP - I'd love to get one.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by Electro Something » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:36 pm

studioutopia wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:04 am

If you added a bunch of VCAs you could patch together your own modulation bus. Add a wavefolder and you could do Buchla-style Complex Oscillator stuff.
Patch this:
- Mix the output of the two modulation oscillators into a VCA (the modulation bus).
- Optional: Use additional VCAs to create control the modulator mix the if you want CV control over the mix amounts.
- Patch/mult the output of the modulation bus VCA into the Linear FM, PW mod of the Carrier VCO, and/or the wavefolder amount. With one CV you can control the effect of the modulators on all of these aspects of the carrier and wavefolder (timbre).
- Patch the output of the Carrier oscillator into the wavefolder, and the output of the wavefolder to your mix/speakers.
Oh very cool. Cheers for this!

I always thought the Zing modulation basically did that already. Apparently I don't understand "zing".
studioutopia wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:04 am
One cool thing about Trident is that it can be patched up like a 3-operator FM voice, like the Hertz Donut MkIII.
With Zing - you can definitely can do things you cannot do with the traditional Complex Oscillator.
How do you do that? Use the 3 individual outputs of the Trident, and modulate each oscillator's exponential FM?

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by studioutopia » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:57 pm

Electro Something wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:36 pm
studioutopia wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:04 am

If you added a bunch of VCAs you could patch together your own modulation bus. Add a wavefolder and you could do Buchla-style Complex Oscillator stuff.
Patch this:
- Mix the output of the two modulation oscillators into a VCA (the modulation bus).
- Optional: Use additional VCAs to create control the modulator mix the if you want CV control over the mix amounts.
- Patch/mult the output of the modulation bus VCA into the Linear FM, PW mod of the Carrier VCO, and/or the wavefolder amount. With one CV you can control the effect of the modulators on all of these aspects of the carrier and wavefolder (timbre).
- Patch the output of the Carrier oscillator into the wavefolder, and the output of the wavefolder to your mix/speakers.
Oh very cool. Cheers for this!

I always thought the Zing modulation basically did that already. Apparently I don't understand "zing".
studioutopia wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:04 am
One cool thing about Trident is that it can be patched up like a 3-operator FM voice, like the Hertz Donut MkIII.
With Zing - you can definitely can do things you cannot do with the traditional Complex Oscillator.
How do you do that? Use the 3 individual outputs of the Trident, and modulate each oscillator's exponential FM?
According to the website description and the manual, Zing is not modulating (FM) the frequency of the Primary oscillator, but more like Ring Modulation (4-quadrant multiplier). From the website:
"Each of the Modulation Oscillators can modulate each of the Carrier outputs in an amount controlled by the Zing parameter. Zing Modulation is mathematically akin to ring modulation..."
So... Amplitide - not frequency.

To patch it up like for 3-operator FM has many options (much like the algorythms of a DX7, TX81Z or other multi-operator FM synth):
eg. The most basic algorythm 3-2-1:
Have all three oscillators track the same v/oct pitch.
- Patch the output of oscillator 3 into the Linear FM on Oscillator 2.
- Patch the output of oscillator 2 into the Linear FM on Oscillator 1.
Adjusting the pitch of each oscillator and the amount of FM applied to the next down the chain will create fantastic sidebands.
Try playing with variations on ratios - ie. if the pitch of #1 is 100Hz, try 150Hz for #2 (1.5:1), and 200Hz for #3 (2:1)
Read this for more info on Carrier:Modulator FM ratios!!!! https://www.sfu.ca/~truax/fmtut.html

Another would be 3-1 and 2-1:
Have all three oscillators track the same v/oct pitch.
- Patch the output of oscillator 3 into a mixer or VCA.
- Patch the output of oscillator 2 into a mixer or VCA.
Patch the output of the mixer/VCA into the Linear FM on Oscillator 1.
If you use a VCA, you can control the amount of impact each modulator oscillator has to the carrier frequency with an LFO or an envelope.

I would love to hear what effect Zing has on either of those!

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by geremyf » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:06 pm

FYI linear FM is only available on the Carrier OSC, not the modulator oscillators.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by studioutopia » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:21 pm

geremyf wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:06 pm
FYI linear FM is only available on the Carrier OSC, not the modulator oscillators.
Ouch. I totally overlooked that.
Scratch the three operator FM ideas - except the one method with two operators (modulators) mixed in parallel into the Primary/carrier.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by oldenjon » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:25 pm

geremyf wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:06 pm
FYI linear FM is only available on the Carrier OSC, not the modulator oscillators.
Yeah I just got Trident and am a bit bummed by this as it would have been nice for cross mod. There might be a good reason for it though. It seems the I/O was chosen carefully to facilitate smooth operation of the Zing mod feature. I was told the reason sine was left out is that it doesn't sound very different than triangle with Zing.
studioutopia wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:04 am
The Zing modulation feature is a departure from the Buchla concept. It is similar though.
If you added a bunch of VCAs you could patch together your own modulation bus. Add a wavefolder and you could do Buchla-style Complex Oscillator stuff.
I think a wave folder would be kind of redundant. The interaction of waveforms with sync and 4 quadrant multiplication is like a wave shaping circuit that gets into similar territory as wave folding at times, but is more flexible IMO. Especially with the added symmetry control which is pretty unique. I guess the interactions might be more subtle at times, but I've found some pretty interesting filter-y sounds that I've never heard come from a typical complex oscillator setup.

Also, these are probably the best tracking oscillators in eurorack and worth having just for that reason
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by studioutopia » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:46 pm

oldenjon wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:25 pm
geremyf wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:06 pm
FYI linear FM is only available on the Carrier OSC, not the modulator oscillators.
Yeah I just got Trident and am a bit bummed by this as it would have been nice for cross mod. There might be a good reason for it though. It seems the I/O was chosen carefully to facilitate smooth operation of the Zing mod feature. I was told the reason sine was left out is that it doesn't sound very different than triangle with Zing.
studioutopia wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:04 am
The Zing modulation feature is a departure from the Buchla concept. It is similar though.
If you added a bunch of VCAs you could patch together your own modulation bus. Add a wavefolder and you could do Buchla-style Complex Oscillator stuff.
I think a wave folder would be kind of redundant. The interaction of waveforms with sync and 4 quadrant multiplication is like a wave shaping circuit that gets into similar territory as wave folding at times, but is more flexible IMO. Especially with the added symmetry control which is pretty unique. I guess the interactions might be more subtle at times, but I've found some pretty interesting filter-y sounds that I've never heard come from a typical complex oscillator setup.

Also, these are probably the best tracking oscillators in eurorack and worth having just for that reason
Just re-watched the DivKid video...it's been a while. yes, that Zing gets into folder territory for sure. The Linear FM seems a bit weak, especially compared to the Brenso, Hertz Donut 3 and Rubicon2 sitting in front of me. But - like you discovered, I don't think FM was the main idea.
This machine definitely sounds like it's a superstar at that sync'd Prophet 5 sound!
I would have to say Trident has a sound all it's own - quite different and unique than the differences between my Complex Oscillators. Good to hear on the tracking!

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by oldenjon » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:55 pm

studioutopia wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:46 pm
Just re-watched the DivKid video...it's been a while. yes, that Zing gets into folder territory for sure. The Linear FM seems a bit weak, especially compared to the Brenso, Hertz Donut 3 and Rubicon2 sitting in front of me. But - like you discovered, I don't think FM was the main idea.
This machine definitely sounds like it's a superstar at that sync'd Prophet 5 sound!
I would have to say Trident has a sound all it's own - quite different and unique than the differences between my Complex Oscillators. Good to hear on the tracking!
Yeah I guess you could say this is a TZAM Or TZZM complex VCO, maybe a good companion to TZFM? Personally, I think Mangrove and Trident might be interesting together.
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by digable-me » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:19 am

Some of the demos of this sound fantastic - really present and alive. However, most demos, including DivKid’s seem to always have the modulation indices (I.e. zing) turned up almost all the way. I’d be curious to hear some more mellow or rounded tones from Trident. I’d also be curious to hear some demos which don’t make use of the sync, and explore some slightly inharmonic territory.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by Electro Something » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:48 am

oldenjon wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:25 pm
I think a wave folder would be kind of redundant. The interaction of waveforms with sync and 4 quadrant multiplication is like a wave shaping circuit that gets into similar territory as wave folding at times, but is more flexible IMO.
Yeah if I run my Trident through my Bifold wave folder, it doesn’t add much except maybe a little extra grit.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by geremyf » Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:04 am

Yeah, most of Rossum's modules are *very* unique in eurorack, with not much else like them. Trident is their take on doing something different with an all analog oscillator. I don't have one yet (and with very little rack space, don't have real plans for one) but I love the sound and that you really couldn't pull this off with other modules without some serious effort.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by oldenjon » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:04 am

digable-me wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:19 am
Some of the demos of this sound fantastic - really present and alive. However, most demos, including DivKid’s seem to always have the modulation indices (I.e. zing) turned up almost all the way. I’d be curious to hear some more mellow or rounded tones from Trident. I’d also be curious to hear some demos which don’t make use of the sync, and explore some slightly inharmonic territory.
Yeah Trident, and as a consequence the demos, are very focused on sync and the kinds of sounds you can get when sync is enabled. I'm pretty sure Zing = Sync + Ring as in 'Syng'. Sync has a pretty characteristic sound, so I'm curious about the interactions / sounds you get when the mod oscillators are not synced but still correlated. I might need to get a quantizer.
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by tommygee » Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:49 am

I'm considering the trident. Already got a Instruo CS-L, Piston Honda Mk3 (and owned Verbos CO, DPO, Hertz Donut mk2, Piston Honda mk2 etc. in the past.

Anyone owns the Cs-L AND the Trident ?

Having watched all Youtube videos the Trident seems quite bright - how are your experiences here ?

Thanks.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music - Trident

Post by uniquepersonno2 » Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:49 am

tommygee wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:49 am
I'm considering the trident. Already got a Instruo CS-L, Piston Honda Mk3 (and owned Verbos CO, DPO, Hertz Donut mk2, Piston Honda mk2 etc. in the past.

Anyone owns the Cs-L AND the Trident ?

Having watched all Youtube videos the Trident seems quite bright - how are your experiences here ?

Thanks.
I own both! They're very, very different.
It's done!
Ever growing, ever changing... I need some longer cables.

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