Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by submute »

6667 wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:54 amBut for every Richard Devine, there's 50 dudes with these massive systems that cost more than the average American could afford with their entire annual salary, yet they just end up make shockingly average sounding instagram clips.
For every Eddie Van Halen there were 5000 dudes just doing absolutely mediocre nothing in their bedrooms and loving every fucking minute of it I mean who gives a shit?
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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Yeah, I mean...who the f**k cares about social media though? If a person wants to stack $10k in synth gear in his living room and make music that almost nobody will hear, who cares? If they enjoy it and it increases their quality of life, that's what matters. IMO.

My only wish with music instruments in general is that people can hopefully keep them as heirlooms to pass down to future generations to enjoy and hopefully reduce some of the rampant throwaway culture that exists.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by Carl A »

Consumerism yes, but certainly not extreme consumerism.

If a eurorack purchase makes you happy even for a short while then it's worth it afaic. There is always the chance that you use it to make a piece of music that brings a great deal of happiness to the world (so it's not always about self consumption).

It's been said earlier but I have seen cars exchanged for ridiculous amounts and sit in glass houses while they decay. That is sad (piece of art my ass) and paradoxically more costly. E.G. Ferrari F40 needs a £15K drain/service every year when it's not driven, when it is it doesn't.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by Blairio »

luchog wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:43 am
wuff_miggler wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:09 am i guess showing of a larger than life system carries with it the air that you're using it to make brain melting music? to not hear that is a disappointment
Blairio wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:26 am There are parallels in other walks of life. The expensive sports car owner who has barely average driving skills, the yacht owner who needs a proper seafarer to sail the thing, and so on. I guess you could argue that a huge wall of modular is just another example of conspicuous wealth - unless the owner uses to the rig to somewhere near its full potential.
Stuff like expensive sports cars and yachts are definitely examples of conspicuous consumption, since they do not function any better as transportation than less costly alternatives. That's not really a good comparison to modular synth gear (or most musical instruments for that matter); since there isn't all that much difference in cost vs. functionality between the various formats or manufacturers.
The thing about excellence (be it in cars, boats, musical instruments, whatever) is that in the right hands the excellence will help deliver an elevated performance. A porche 356 (my favourite) rewards very good driving skills. A Buchla system or a Stradivarius in the right hands will sing. So there are valid use cases for an expensive object that ostensibly does the same job as a cheaper one, actually justifying the extra outlay - because it is clearly superior in the right hands. I guess it is down to the owner of that object, and their ability with it, whether the excellence of the thing actually shines through. If not, then the extra expense has delivered no benefit over a more modestly priced item. I am not sure that synths (modular, semi-modular, whatever) are any different.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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Carl A wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:16 pm Consumerism yes, but certainly not extreme consumerism.

If a eurorack purchase makes you happy even for a short while then it's worth it afaic. There is always the chance that you use it to make a piece of music that brings a great deal of happiness to the world (so it's not always about self consumption).

It's been said earlier but I have seen cars exchanged for ridiculous amounts and sit in glass houses while they decay. That is sad (piece of art my ass) and paradoxically more costly. E.G. Ferrari F40 needs a £15K drain/service every year when it's not driven, when it is it doesn't.
You must be familiar with this guy then:

https://spyscape.com/article/the-sultan ... collection

It is a bit irritating because I dont think most of them ever get driven.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by analogbrainsurgeon »

Consumerism...hmmm...

Euro is similar to lego. Sometimes collecting a lot of different stuff is fun. Engineering how each piece will fit into the larger puzzle, calculating power and module arrangement in harmony, building a complete system for sonic exploration is a challenge and a joy in itself. For some people these things may not be too exciting, but for some they are. Making music or video art or processing something or doing audible math is all worthwhile. Some people show off long generative works on large systems and others post short clips of strange sounds, but to me it says "hello, I have this interest too and look at my modules, maybe we have something to talk about!" Sometimes people take things the wrong way, or they take them the right way, but they're not the intended audience. I think most fields encourage consumption, but consumption leads to innovation, both through demand for expanded ideas as well as the producer's demand for dollars to make a new product. Phones are a great example. How often did families upgrade their single home phone for decades? I remember my grandparents' phones being cool vintage handsets and thinking nothing of it. Now... now you need a new phone every year if you're possibly going to be able to live stream your life and record it to the cloud in the highest possible definition if you're ever going to create your own Truman Show and gain enough subscribers to be able to just be you and profit. Eurorack is like the new guitar pedal scene; people realized they were spending comparable amounts to euro modules on guitar pedals and decided to dip their toes in something new. The rise of the boutique pedal market directly benefited the eurorack scene and now we have all these new toys and instruments and creative tools that have never been imagined before in all of human history. We even have people, like Tony over at MN, that are making modern versions of older concepts that just weren't practical for mass production (if it even existed) and use at the time of their original conception. The struggling eurorack artist could very well be a thing, but I've never heard of a guy sitting on his PA with his travel case on his lap down by the crossroads trying to sell his soul, or someone living on the street being discovered in a bar making bleep bloops and then rising to musical and financial greatness... but then again these are interesting times we're living in and perhaps I shouldn't be too quick to speak on that... anyways, buy, buy, buy, and create, create, create, but if you're going to get stuck on one part of that cycle then try to make it the creative part... or at least make your rack look cool.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by Carl A »

devinw1 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:41 pm
Carl A wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:16 pm Consumerism yes, but certainly not extreme consumerism.

If a eurorack purchase makes you happy even for a short while then it's worth it afaic. There is always the chance that you use it to make a piece of music that brings a great deal of happiness to the world (so it's not always about self consumption).

It's been said earlier but I have seen cars exchanged for ridiculous amounts and sit in glass houses while they decay. That is sad (piece of art my ass) and paradoxically more costly. E.G. Ferrari F40 needs a £15K drain/service every year when it's not driven, when it is it doesn't.
You must be familiar with this guy then:

https://spyscape.com/article/the-sultan ... collection

It is a bit irritating because I dont think most of them ever get driven.

Unfortunately, yes. I agree, I suspect they are lucky to be driven once a year.....This is extreme consumerism , selfish, narcissistic and disgusting.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should ffs.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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Blairio wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:38 pm
luchog wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:43 am Stuff like expensive sports cars and yachts are definitely examples of conspicuous consumption, since they do not function any better as transportation than less costly alternatives. That's not really a good comparison to modular synth gear (or most musical instruments for that matter); since there isn't all that much difference in cost vs. functionality between the various formats or manufacturers.
The thing about excellence (be it in cars, boats, musical instruments, whatever) is that in the right hands the excellence will help deliver an elevated performance. A porche 356 (my favourite) rewards very good driving skills.
Where, though? How many people are actually taking their Porsches, Ferraris, Koenigseggs, etc. out to the track? The "excellence" and "elevated performance" is certainly not going to show itself running down to the corner shops, or on the daily rush-hour freeway commute. In everyday driving, there is 99.999% of the time never going to be a situation where said "extra performance" is going to matter in the slightest. It's all image driven by marketing hype. The higher performance exists, but it's almost entirely useless.

That, however, is the only example here where that's the case. With regard to the other examples, there isn't even a practical, functional difference.
A Buchla system or a Stradivarius in the right hands will sing.
So will a Eurorack or Moog rack. So will a Vittorio or DZ or Cao or Ming Jiang Zhu.

With synths, there are Eurorack modules made with circuits that are identical, or at least extremely similar, to the Buchla 100 and 200 series; built with much higher quality components. The true genius in the Buchla 200 system wasn't as much the circuits or components, it was the interface design and curated selection of functions. Electronically, it was in no way superior to a Moog, Serge, EMS, etc. from the same period. And looking at some of the old PCBs, the construction quality was... adequate by modern standards. As for the 100 series, well, Don did the best he could with the components he had to work with, just like Bob did with the early Moog modules.

Modern gear is superior in nearly every way. The only advantage Buchla -- or really, literally any other significant modular synth format -- has over Euro is the fact that Euro has less headroom (thanks to a bad decision regarding voltage standards) and generally shit UI design (due predominantly to the smaller form factor and user demand for high functional density vs. panel space). Right now, all of the really innovative stuff for modular synthesizers is happening in Eurorack. The last real innovation in Buchla happened nearly 20 years ago with the launch of the 200e series.

As for violins, modern lutherie has advanced enough to effectively replicate the quality of the old Stradavarius and Guarneri del Gesù violins, to the point where the sound is effectively indistinguishable in double-blind testing, even to professionals.

There's too much of a tendency to mythologize what are often purely subjective, or relatively minor, differences in user experience; simply because a thing is more expensive, or is perceived to be rare. In fact, there's a great deal of research that shows that perception of the quality of an item corresponds very closely to the stated cost or rarity of an item; even (especially) when there are no physically perceptible differences. The most iconic demonstration of this phenomenon was a study where subjects took place in a double-blind wine tasting, and the only information they were given was the ostensible price of the wine. Nearly everyone involved rated the "higher-priced" wine as higher quality, even when it was the exact same wine, from the exact same bottle, as the "lower-priced" offering.

This has been proven so many times that it's become a commonly-used marketing strategy; with market research showing that, for luxury products in particular, consumers are actually more likely to purchase their product at a higher price than a lower one, because they subjectively associate higher price with higher quality. It's why manufacturers will often market the same exact product under different brand names and price points in different markets. It's the reason that audiophiles will pay ridiculous amounts of money for excessively-bulky speaker cables and magic rocks, despite their not having a single measurable effect on audio quality.

But despite knowing the technical and psychological reality behind it all, the tendency to mythologize still persists as a form of cognitive dissonance, elitist snobbery, or (commonly) both. It's like rich idiots who eat steak covered in gold leaf.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by luchog »

devinw1 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:08 pm Yeah, I mean...who the f**k cares about social media though?
Enough people to make "social media influencer" a viable and often lucrative career.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by Blairio »

I think the key word in your (Luchog's) response is 'luxury'. If you position an apparently over expensive product as luxurious ( where the connotations of 'luxury' are unecessary expense and redundancy), then a lot of what you suggest follows. However some expensive things are more expensive because of materials technology and evolutionary design. These things cost money. And that holds as true now, as it did in the late 17th / early 18th centuries - the heyday of Stradivarius.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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Blairio wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:25 pm I think the key word in your (Luchog's) response is 'luxury'. If you position an apparently over expensive product as luxurious ( where the connotations of 'luxury' are unecessary expense and redundancy), then a lot of what you suggest follows.
No, I said "in particular", not exclusively luxury products. The phenomenon holds just as true for common consumer goods and necessities. Hence the reason most US supermarkets have "store brand" products that are identical to "name brand" versions. Literally identical, both products being made by the same corporations on the same assembly lines. They're just given different labels and price points, and targeted at different markets. It's all the same stuff inside the cans and bottles and boxes.

Yet many people still insist on purchasing name brand commodities over store brand, because they subjectively perceive the higher price to indicate higher quality.
However some expensive things are more expensive because of materials technology and evolutionary design.
That is sometimes true to a small extent; but concomitant with those advances in materials technology and design are advances in manufacturing techniques that reduce overall production costs. And in many cases, those new materials and designs do not provide any substantial functional improvement.

For example, automobile prices have shot up drastically in the last few decades; but almost none of that is due to manufacturing cost. Functionally, traditional petrol-fuel vehicles are identical to their '90s counterparts, same fuel economy, same durability, same maintenance requirements. The big difference is in the types of vehicles being made (Americans, at least, preferring larger vehicles like SUVs); and the sheer volume of add-ons, most of which are unnecessary, and a few even counter-productive. There have been minor incremental improvements to basic automobile tech, but nothing justifying the huge jump in price.

Most of of the price increase that can't be explained by simple inflation is the addition of vast amounts of electronic controls, few of which are anything more than luxury conveniences, and those that aren't are only marginal improvements at best. Or they're gadgets like proximity detectors and backup cameras that encourage drivers to pay even less attention to what they're doing when driving (there are plenty of studies showing that many of these "safety features" actually increase collision frequency and severity, as drivers depend more and more on the safety features and less on their own attentiveness and driving skill).
These things cost money. And that holds as true now, as it did in the late 17th / early 18th centuries - the heyday of Stradivarius.
What made Stradivarius, Guarneri, and similar luthiers distinctive was the fact that they were master crafters at a time when the technology was still very primitive, and very few others had the time or resources (read: supported by the nobility) needed to learn and truly master such a craft, given the limitations of materials and manufacturing technology, and relative social status (recall that this is a pre-industrial society where the bulk of labour, and thus society, was still agricultural and small-scale cottage manufacturing). Today, replicating the sound qualities of these "master crafted" violins is quite simple to do, thanks to extensive analysis, and many modern luthiers have done so.

Double-blind testing has repeatedly demonstrated that even the most seasoned professionals can rarely, if ever, tell the difference between a million-dollar antique Stradivarius or Guarneri, and a twenty-thousand-dollar modern version. Many have even stated a preference for the sound of the modern instruments, often mistaking them for the antiques. It's not the sound quality that determines the cost of the antiques, it's the provenance, rarity, and most importantly, the mythology that has grown up around them. Yes, they were good for their time, but modern instruments are just as good, if not better.
Last edited by luchog on Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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luchog wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:18 pm
devinw1 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:08 pm Yeah, I mean...who the f**k cares about social media though?
Enough people to make "social media influencer" a viable and often lucrative career.
Tragically true IMO, yes. :despair:
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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submute wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:50 am
6667 wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:54 amBut for every Richard Devine, there's 50 dudes with these massive systems that cost more than the average American could afford with their entire annual salary, yet they just end up make shockingly average sounding instagram clips.
For every Eddie Van Halen there were 5000 dudes just doing absolutely mediocre nothing in their bedrooms and loving every fucking minute of it I mean who gives a shit?
It's the law of big numbers. Take 5000 dudes making random pieces of music and some people will rise above the crowd, mostly through sheer luck. I don't contest the impressive skills of those who make it, but there are many others out there with a different skill set that would work just as well and that don't make it. As it was shown with managers, I believe musicians who make it put in all the work like lots of others, but get more luck by pure coincidence.

I could say that I aim to increase my chance at luck by increasing my output, but 1) I would be lying (it's not why I do it) and 2) there are lots and lots of examples in music, book writing, ... that prove it doesn't work like that.
luchog wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:13 pm In fact, there's a great deal of research that shows that perception of the quality of an item corresponds very closely to the stated cost or rarity of an item; even (especially) when there are no physically perceptible differences. The most iconic demonstration of this phenomenon was a study where subjects took place in a double-blind wine tasting, and the only information they were given was the ostensible price of the wine. Nearly everyone involved rated the "higher-priced" wine as higher quality, even when it was the exact same wine, from the exact same bottle, as the "lower-priced" offering.

This has been proven so many times that it's become a commonly-used marketing strategy; with market research showing that, for luxury products in particular, consumers are actually more likely to purchase their product at a higher price than a lower one, because they subjectively associate higher price with higher quality. It's why manufacturers will often market the same exact product under different brand names and price points in different markets. It's the reason that audiophiles will pay ridiculous amounts of money for excessively-bulky speaker cables and magic rocks, despite their not having a single measurable effect on audio quality.
I see a great business model here of a dual-brand module maker that ships the same modules with anodized aluminium everything vs plastic and some tweaks in component selection (to add the unfathomable audio part). Triple the price, at least!
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by xaladrene 0.25 »

@luchog
Quite a satisfaction reading your inputs and contribution to the discussion I have to say. —And while not having your knowledge re musical gear and instruments history nor being able to articulate such arguments with same ease in English I’d like to express both my appreciation and agreement, enlightening readings indeed and thank you for your efforts

On a personal note, downsizing my set up at the moment, which is a pretty strange “letting go” process and quite a relief eventually I must say, totally more music making oriented, plus sort of a slow rejoicing to withdraw from this very specific eurorack consumer unrest —or should one say “repetitive self-induced frustration”, which I believe to be at the core of consumerism, generally speaking


(edit : pretty on point thread title also in my opinion)
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by xaladrene 0.25 »

Arrandan wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:53 pm I see a great business model here of a dual-brand module maker that ships the same modules with anodized aluminium everything vs plastic and some tweaks in component selection (to add the unfathomable audio part). Triple the price, at least!
Stretching the idea just a little I believe one could say B.’s doing the job, sort of grafting itself onto existing and already well established products and companies w cheap alternatives :hihi:
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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devinw1 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:08 pm Yeah, I mean...who the f**k cares about social media though? If a person wants to stack $10k in synth gear in his living room and make music that almost nobody will hear, who cares? If they enjoy it and it increases their quality of life, that's what matters. IMO.
Yep. It's hard to not get caught up in this aspect of social media and the world, for me at least (and I would guess for many others). In the end it's about the process itself for me. When I've posted videos on social media (as well as the work I've done as a composer that gets heard and seen by many), it's fine and good to get heard and maybe praised, but in the end it's just a fleeting hit of dopamine whereas the joy of actually creating it is where the long-lasting hits live for me. We all die one day anyway, so that part is more where it's at if you ask me.

devinw1 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:08 pmMy only wish with music instruments in general is that people can hopefully keep them as heirlooms to pass down to future generations to enjoy and hopefully reduce some of the rampant throwaway culture that exists.
Agreed 100%.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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see below
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by modezart »

Arrandan wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:53 pm
submute wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:50 am
6667 wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:54 amBut for every Richard Devine, there's 50 dudes with these massive systems that cost more than the average American could afford with their entire annual salary, yet they just end up make shockingly average sounding instagram clips.
For every Eddie Van Halen there were 5000 dudes just doing absolutely mediocre nothing in their bedrooms and loving every fucking minute of it I mean who gives a shit?
It's the law of big numbers. Take 5000 dudes making random pieces of music and some people will rise above the crowd, mostly through sheer luck. I don't contest the impressive skills of those who make it, but there are many others out there with a different skill set that would work just as well and that don't make it. As it was shown with managers, I believe musicians who make it put in all the work like lots of others, but get more luck by pure coincidence.

I could say that I aim to increase my chance at luck by increasing my output, but 1) I would be lying (it's not why I do it) and 2) there are lots and lots of examples in music, book writing, ... that prove it doesn't work like that.
luchog wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:13 pm In fact, there's a great deal of research that shows that perception of the quality of an item corresponds very closely to the stated cost or rarity of an item; even (especially) when there are no physically perceptible differences. The most iconic demonstration of this phenomenon was a study where subjects took place in a double-blind wine tasting, and the only information they were given was the ostensible price of the wine. Nearly everyone involved rated the "higher-priced" wine as higher quality, even when it was the exact same wine, from the exact same bottle, as the "lower-priced" offering.

This has been proven so many times that it's become a commonly-used marketing strategy; with market research showing that, for luxury products in particular, consumers are actually more likely to purchase their product at a higher price than a lower one, because they subjectively associate higher price with higher quality. It's why manufacturers will often market the same exact product under different brand names and price points in different markets. It's the reason that audiophiles will pay ridiculous amounts of money for excessively-bulky speaker cables and magic rocks, despite their not having a single measurable effect on audio quality.
I see a great business model here of a dual-brand module maker that ships the same modules with anodized aluminium everything vs plastic and some tweaks in component selection (to add the unfathomable audio part). Triple the price, at least!
well the thing with the luck is that it does need something more that make you are outstanding. 5000 is a bit extreme but i get your point. networking, connnections and other stuff outside of the music releasing is important.
Lets say underground electronic music industry needs a bit more then luck. Beeing consisent, enviroment (booker, mngnt, label) the whole setup has to work. music is so subjective and there almost no leaders these days. everybody follows and original stuff is rare. i m not talking niche stuff on bandcamp it has to work if you wanna move forward. nobody gives a fuck about purist whatever
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by Spaceman Jacques »

Humans are funny. They like to spend money on weird shit. For the cost of my entire modular I could probably go on a 2 week cruise. Trapped in a floating death trap, seasick, with a bunch of strangers sounds to me like the most miserable waste of money imaginable. Plus a used cruise ticket has zero resale value. But ask the average person and they would probably choose that over owning a modular-access to infinite hours of a universe of sounds. Yet here we are, being accused of “extreme consumerism” in a world where NFTs of toilet paper sell for thousands of dollars.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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This thread is giving me gas.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by Stu B »

Not anymore because I completed my synth yesterday and I won’t need to buy any more modules…. 🤣
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

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luchog wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:09 pm No, I said "in particular", not exclusively luxury products. The phenomenon holds just as true for common consumer goods and necessities. Hence the reason most US supermarkets have "store brand" products that are identical to "name brand" versions. Literally identical, both products being made by the same corporations on the same assembly lines. They're just given different labels and price points, and targeted at different markets. It's all the same stuff inside the cans and bottles and boxes.

Yet many people still insist on purchasing name brand commodities over store brand, because they subjectively perceive the higher price to indicate higher quality.

I'm onboard with you in most of your statements and conclusions, but this commonly held belief does not often hold up to detailed inspection. I suggest you try it. Buy several cans* of store brand and several cans of the name brand.

What you'll find in most cases is that there *is* a marked difference between the two. Here's why.

The mistake being made is the same one you'd make if you tried to say that all Fender guitars were equal because they all came from Fender. Every single manufacturing process has variation and many mfrs have developed ways to deal with this. One way is to create products of differing quality for different markets coming from the same plant. Or coming from a different plant under the 'umbrella' of a name brand organization.

The store wants you to believe that their brand is the same as the name brand -it's in their best interest to do so!- and often successfully accomplishes this false narrative because it's something the buyers want to believe too. The name brand maker might well be providing the store with both products. But here's the deal. They are *not* the same items and often *not* from the same production line. Or even the same factory. Just like the Fender's that range from high to low end but all have a Fender tag.

There are of course some cases where the product may be the same but these are far fewer than this trope of it all being exactly the same thing but with a different label claims.

Seriously, don't take my word for it! Do your own side-by-side test from your local store. You don't even have to be a foodie to see the quite obvious differences. But it has to be a fair test. One can* of each might not -but often does- show the differences.

Production lines in most manufacturing have become *much* more flexible and supportive of this style of easily changed outputs.
Where a lower grade of raw materials can be -and is- easily swapped. Installing a cheaper set of tuners on the headstock or a different groupo on the bicycle frame means different levels of quality can come from the same lines. A cheaper grade of vanilla -or any other of its ingredients- goes into the lesser food product.

Name brands have bought up lesser brands in many cases and do not upgrade their production even though it can now be labeled as a 'shadow' product of the branded company.

It's always been true that incoming materials are sorted or graded at some point. Due to Deming the location of this point has changed in many industries. But handling variation is something every single company making things has to deal with -and also profitably applies- and the ways for doing that have changed as large companies have absorbed smaller competitors. Selling your unusable materials to a lower level producer has always been done. Just as sorting for better grade and expected higher return is also part of the reality. The difference is that the 'lower' and 'higher' grade company -and production lines- are now often part of the same company or conglomerate.

Name brands are name brands for reasons. Not always entirely valid reasons. But also not necessarily invalid reasons either.

I will be surprised if anyone taking up this challenge to actually test the name brand against the store brand cannot see, feel and determine the difference in several cans* of each product at their local store.

*or boxes, or whatever package it's in.
Luchog wrote:
Blairio wrote:However some expensive things are more expensive because of materials technology and evolutionary design.
That is sometimes true to a small extent; but concomitant with those advances in materials technology and design are advances in manufacturing techniques that reduce overall production costs. And in many cases, those new materials and designs do not provide any substantial functional improvement.
You're both correct. But neither is hitting where the cost actually comes into the equation more heavily. Marketing and brand quality assurance. Luchog does cover this some and it needs to be amplified in the overall importance because there are large costs in living up to the higher quality branding. These may be real costs associated with higher grades of materials or mfg. which I think underlies what Blairio was getting at. Or they may be merely doing a better job of emulating the Wizard of Oz before the curtain was pulled back. Either way it costs money to keep the quality -actual or perceived- up to the level that the brand status remains protected.
Luchog wrote: Most of of the price increase that can't be explained by simple inflation is the addition of vast amounts of electronic controls, few of which are anything more than luxury conveniences, and those that aren't are only marginal improvements at best. Or they're gadgets like proximity detectors and backup cameras
Yes. this is the point just made. The higher price is a result of increased features deemed important to the branding and maintaining that the brand is 'worth the higher cost'.
Luchog wrote: It's not the sound quality that determines the cost of the antiques, it's the provenance, rarity, and most importantly, the mythology that has grown up around them.
Yes. This again is part of the very real higher cost of *branded* things. Provenance -AKA a brand's value to the buyer/owner- and 'mythology' cost money to maintain.
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commoner
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by commoner »

Yes, and a forum is just a giant comments section.
-cynic is the word used by one who wishes to believe that a realist is wrong
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Blairio
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by Blairio »

Never by supermarket own-brand corn flakes for your kids. It always ends in tears and recrimination.
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Re: Is Eurorack just extreme consumerism?

Post by analogbrainsurgeon »

Where can I get some of these generic eurorack modules?
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