Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

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johannes
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by johannes »

I Agree, good idea. It’s not implemented so you havevto find a workaround. I just tried something:
As you can addreSs your favorite 4 envelopes by cv (via shape parameter) you can use a controler like tetrapad/tete to do it. You can dial through the envs and assign them as you wish to specific banks, wich you can than play/sequence through.
Edit. Was a bit fast, megarat already pointed out that a sequencer wOuld doin it… yeah, masking out or so is not possible.
You could also mix 2 or more zadar channels and append envelopes by using the phase parameter of the zadar channels…
Sound_trace
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Sound_trace »

johannes wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:58 pm I Agree, good idea. It’s not implemented so you havevto find a workaround. I just tried something:
As you can addreSs your favorite 4 envelopes by cv (via shape parameter) you can use a controler like tetrapad/tete to do it. You can dial through the envs and assign them as you wish to specific banks, wich you can than play/sequence through.
Edit. Was a bit fast, megarat already pointed out that a sequencer wOuld doin it… yeah, masking out or so is not possible.
You could also mix 2 or more zadar channels and append envelopes by using the phase parameter of the zadar channels…
thanks to you both- will have a look tomorrow and see if I can figure something out from this :-) cheers!
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mpTRONIX
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by mpTRONIX »

Hi Gang,

At some point I asked if it was normal for the snaps to be loosely wobbly.

-someone said that‘s normal
-someone said maybe shorter snaps would help

I ordered shorter ones via ‚thonk‘ and they are perfect.

i don't really advertise for others but sorry xaoc the shorter ones look better, fit tight and don't wobble so much like your orig.style.

beautiful module, perfect with short push buttons (at least I think so)
….if there were an expansion module (provided it was feasible at all?)...with four displays for the channels... then it's a holy grail.....i mentioned it earlier.....but no feedback….
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yentzee
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by yentzee »

Hi,
does anyone have like a list or some hints on what to use the complex shapes for?
I rarely use the module as for simple adsr it is just too fiddely to set up.
It can do LFO of course but the standard shapes are in different banks and it has to be set in ms which also is a bit fiddly.
looping and using it as an oscillator seems quite nice.
I was wondering about the transient shapes, are those meant to shape comeplete percussive sounds out of oscillators or do you just create the transient part and layer a body underneath? How do those shapes differ? Would you use them with a linear or logarithmic vca? Wouldn't those fast changes on the VCA not automatically result in overdrive especially in low frequency sounds?
What are the complex crazy shapes for?
I can see that there is a lot of potential for pseudo random modulation and happy accident stuff but obviously there was an idea when the shapes were created and I am having a hard time understanding which one that was.
I am making tech house and breakbeat which both are not the best styles for ever evolving changing sounds and I wonder what would be the best thing to do with the module as I don't use it nearly as much as I probably should.
What do you do with it apart from lfo, adsr and random stuff?
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drfiresign
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by drfiresign »

yentzee wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:02 am It can do LFO of course but the standard shapes are in different banks and it has to be set in ms which also is a bit fiddly.
I'm not sure if you mean that it's fiddly to dial in the appropriate amount of time or that you feel like it's fiddly to change the time. I know some folks seem to have had issues with the knobs registering but my unit seems to respond to how quickly I turn the knob. So for me, it's pretty fast to go from ultra short times to very long times. I will say I'm not really a fan of doing the math in my head, but I just think of it as a reminder that I need to be less precise and just let things evolve as they're dialed in.
yentzee wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:02 am looping and using it as an oscillator seems quite nice.
I was wondering about the transient shapes, are those meant to shape comeplete percussive sounds out of oscillators or do you just create the transient part and layer a body underneath?
How do those shapes differ?
Two things I like to do here is to take some of the shapes that have lots of dynamic jumps. For example, G 8-10, I 6-10, and all of bank J I think are really good when used as shorter envelopes. It makes an odd sort of ringing kind of sound. Not actually "ringing" per-se but think of running a percussion brush across the top of a cymbal or high hat. What I've been doing with those lately is to take an oscillator and use one of those shapes as a VCA envelope with somewhere around a 1.5 - 2 second length and run that sound into MI Rings on either the green or red mode then play around with the Rings settings. Sounds good with the yellow string mode too, but I'm trying not to rely so much on the string mode since it's so easy to set it on that mode for a quick "pretty" sound.
yentzee wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:02 amWould you use them with a linear or logarithmic vca?
I usually find using just about anything coming out of Zadar is best with a linear VCA as it's hard to predict how much of an impact you'll have from the logarithmic ones. Unless you have CV control over the response curve! Then play around with that shit all day!
yentzee wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:02 amWouldn't those fast changes on the VCA not automatically result in overdrive especially in low frequency sounds?
Overdrive occurs when you're putting more voltage into a VCA than is required for your input audio signal to be output again at Unity gain. Unity meaning it exits the VCA at the same volume that it entered it at. When something is overdriven, you're adding volume to VCA output gain so that your signal is louder (i.e. has a larger amplitude) than it did on the input. Overdrive doesn't have anything to do the response curve or the envelope shape, but instead is about what the expected input voltage on your VCA is and what your output voltage from Zadar is. Luckily you do have control over the output voltage on Zadar! It's probably my favorite feature actually. You can very precisely dial in the amount of voltage you're outputting so you can choose to overdrive a VCA if you'd like.
yentzee wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:02 amWhat are the complex crazy shapes for?
I can see that there is a lot of potential for pseudo random modulation and happy accident stuff but obviously there was an idea when the shapes were created and I am having a hard time understanding which one that was.
I think you're on the right track here, psuedo random modulation is probably exactly what they intended these shapes for. How I would actually use that modulation though, is probably when I am modulating another modulation signal. For example if I had a fast LFO I wanted to apply to a filter's cutoff frequency. I would run the LFO through a 4 quadrant multiplier/dc-coupled ring mod (MI Blinds, Befaco A*B+C, or Make Noise Moddemix for example) and then use a looong length time on the crazy shape coming out of Zadar as the envelope on the ring mod. That would change how much the LFO is affecting the actual filter cutoff over time. You could then either use a clock divider set to a long division rate, a Bernoulli gate like MI Branches to trigger Zadar, or you could set it as a looping envelope.
yentzee wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:02 amI am making tech house and breakbeat which both are not the best styles for ever evolving changing sounds and I wonder what would be the best thing to do with the module as I don't use it nearly as much as I probably should.
What do you do with it apart from lfo, adsr and random stuff?
I'm sure if you keep trying to experiment with it you'll find some uses for it in these styles. Try not to think of it only as an audio control envelope and the world really opens up IMO. Like I mentioned, using it with a ring mod like Blinds is probably where I would start experimenting with the shapes. You could even take two envelopes out of Zadar and use one to modulate the other! Other fun things to do... :?

- Self patching Zadar is always an interesting one; you can use a looping complex envelope to modulate the SHP, WRP, RSP, LVL or PHS of another one.
- Run a very long one into a quantizer and get an interesting melody out of it.
- Run one envelope through a filter and use another envelope to modulate the filter resonance, then run the filtered one somewhere else.

I'm sure if you start reading this thread from the beginning (if you haven't already) you'll find a lot of great ideas of where to apply it. Where Zadar really excels in my estimation, is in not being used as an audio VCA envelope, but instead using it modulate other modulation signals. Then you start to get some really interesting things out of it. Good luck!
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scragz
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by scragz »

Edit: Xaoc saw my problem detailed below and immediately rectified the situation. Hail Xaoc!

Woo! It's the one year anniversary of sending my Zadar to the US repair shop to get the encoders fixed!

Every few months I politely ask repair guy or Xaoc if they have my module, what the repair status is, and if they can update my return address after I moved. Every time they reply to say they are going to look into it and then never follow up. Both companies have fully stopped replying to me now.

I'm here doing the annoying name and shame in the hopes Xaoc will see this and finally get me my Zadar back (my email address contains my forum username if you want to look it up). Caveat emptor, YMMV, I know most people have had fine experiences.
Last edited by scragz on Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
transistorresistor
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by transistorresistor »

dude thats outrageous. shit falls through the cracks sometimes and thats just life, but they should be overnighting you a brand new module at this point.
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megarat
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by megarat »

scragz wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:27 pm Woo! It's the one year anniversary of sending my Zadar to the US repair shop to get the encoders fixed!

Every few months I politely ask repair guy or Xaoc if they have my module, what the repair status is, and if they can update my return address after I moved. Every time they reply to say they are going to look into it and then never follow up. Both companies have fully stopped replying to me now.
Whaaaaa? Holy craparoni, that sucks rocks big-time. That kind of customer relations is unacceptable. I probably would given up with a bitter grudge months ago.
Last edited by megarat on Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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scragz
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by scragz »

Hey it worked. 15 minutes later in my inbox is a nice apology for my module falling through the cracks, along with assurance it is repaired and shipping out tomorrow.

Thanks, Xaoc! I'll also edit my original post with the update. I know everyone is just doing their best to get by these days and have zero hard feelings about this.
yentzee
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by yentzee »

Thanks for the tips. I suppose I will work my ways through the 48 pages now :)
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