Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
Kosmikos
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:21 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Kosmikos » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:35 pm

Thanks Smoof. You’ve made some interesting suggestions here.
I did a quick test track using output A as a VCO, output B as a sequencer plugged into my quantiser, output C as a complex envelope, and output D as a complex filter envelope. I ran out of utilities on my Palette to offset the waveform, so excuse the lack of dynamic range, but I’m happy enough with the new possibilities it opens, if you consider that there are no other voices! (apart from the drums):

User avatar
Kosmikos
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:21 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Kosmikos » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:17 pm

I moved Zadar back to my main case, and so far I am not disappointed. It does a fantastic job of modulating my filters. Plugged in into a Joranalogue Filter 8 with bit of feedback, I literally turned an acid bass into bubbling water!

There is one thing I’m wondering though, can you make a sustain using a gate as trigger or using the CV somehow? I think there must be something possible with the phase but I haven’t quite worked out how everything works yet.

User avatar
erstlaub
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:31 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by erstlaub » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:26 pm

You can assign a cv in to SUS which sets the sustain value, I've not tried it myself but I imagine you'd be able to toggle between off and wherever you want the sustain point to be. A precise sequencer or something like Pressure Points with Blinds to apply a negative offset if you need will get you there?

EDIT: Yep, I just tried this out and it works but it's a bit of a stretch. At 0v I had the sustain off and it took putting a full 10v (negatively 'attenuated' by 100% in Zadar) in to get the sustain point all the way to the start of the envelope waveform to get a useful sustain.

User avatar
Kosmikos
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:21 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Kosmikos » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:13 am

Thanks. I’ve reread the manual, as I didn’t remember anything about the SUS parameter, it seems that I need to set it manually first for the trigger to become a gate, seems perfect. I’ll try this later today:
Press the sus/level encoder D to toggle be- tween sustain and level parameters. The sustain sets the point on the envelope to be held whenever a gate signal fed into trig input is high. The position is indicated with a vertical dashed line. note: to disable the sustain stage, simply move the sustain point to the very end of the envelope until the display reads off.

User avatar
jwm
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:12 am
Location: florida
Contact:

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by jwm » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:42 am

an observation:

i picked up a zadar from detroit mod recently. read a lot about all these encoder issues and things and was a little hesitant but decided to give it a go. the module i got says "revision 11, 2019" on the pcb, and its running firmware 2.0.3 (which isn't even listed on their site, so i'm guessing this is a newer one?)

at any rate, i started looking into it and, if you look at this 1.0 manual (which places like control in brooklyn are still linking to) and xaoc's own site, it says the power draw is +90/-40, but if you look at this 2.0 manual, it says the power draw is +40/-10.

i checked it out on my joranalogue test3, threw a bunch of cv at it, and it seemed to peak around 47 on +12...so i'm wondering, what is the actual reason for the power draw change, is it hardware or software?

User avatar
bronzebygold
Common Wiggler
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:56 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by bronzebygold » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:17 am

Does anyone use Zadar for audio modulation with linear VCAs? I have a limited number of exponential VCAs in my rack, so I'm trying to figure out if I can make it work with linear VCAs. Is it enough to just warp the Zadar's output on the y-axis to achieve a more exponential output?

User avatar
Agawell
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1633
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 3:22 am

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Agawell » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:17 am

sending audio through a linear vca should work fine - might sound a little 'unusual' as the human ear is used to hearing logarithmic volume increases - but not that bad - I would just try it and if you don't like the result compared to exponential try using an exponential envelope to open the linear vca - this should produce the same response as an exponential vca

not convinced that warping Zadars output will achieve this - but it may work better to your ears - which is what's important
Modular Audio and Video Synthesis on Instagram

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine!!!

an oscillator is an oscillator - utilities are possibilities

choose the case to fit the modules - not the modules to fit the case!!!

User avatar
megarat
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:09 pm
Location: PNW

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by megarat » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:13 pm

bronzebygold wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:17 am
Does anyone use Zadar for audio modulation with linear VCAs? I have a limited number of exponential VCAs in my rack, so I'm trying to figure out if I can make it work with linear VCAs. Is it enough to just warp the Zadar's output on the y-axis to achieve a more exponential output?
I do this routinely, generating envelopes with Zadar for modulating audio with my Doepfer A-130-8 octal linear VCA. And yes, I typically use “warp” to get the shapes that I need. B1 is my favorite for this: on its own it makes great AD envelopes, and if you turn on sustain, you can use it for ASR and ADSR envelopes as well.

yentzee
Common Wiggler
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:22 pm

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by yentzee » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:57 am

Hi,
sorry for maybe asking the obvious. I got Zadar and I find it ok but not great which probably is due to me missing some information.
If anyone could point me into the right direction I would be very thankful.
1. Vectorshapes.
Are the more complex shapes just done that way by coincidence? I understand what the module is doing but for most of the shapes I don't really get what to do with them. I am not into drones and want my envelopes to have some releationship to my songtempo. If I set the time to 1/4 or some other division of my songtempo in ms are all vectors in their standard appearence (no warp etc) done that way that the numerous changes in level releate to the songtempo? What are most of the shapes for? When it says transient shapes - are those meant to control a VCA to mimic a very short percussive sound to layer above another drum?
2. Sustain. What exactly does that parameter do? Looking at a classic envelope sustain is the level the eg emits after the attack & decay phases are done until the gate is released. In Zadar however the envelope just "plays" until the gate is released. It would be great if there was a resease feature but I didn't get the sustain function so far
3. Using as an oscillator. It doesn't seem to track properly so I am wondering what this should be used for as using it as an oscillator will result in notes out of tune.
4. What do you use the module for? I am in need of further envelopes as I just don't use Zadar that much but then I think maybe I just haven't thought it through. Maybe I need to have a template with 2 adsr Vectors set to 1/16th of my song tempo, two set to "make a kick envelopes" or maybe one in a sidechain setup.
Thanks for helping

User avatar
deft_bonz
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:46 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by deft_bonz » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:07 am

yentzee wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:57 am
1. Vectorshapes.
Are the more complex shapes just done that way by coincidence? I understand what the module is doing but for most of the shapes I don't really get what to do with them. I am not into drones and want my envelopes to have some releationship to my songtempo. If I set the time to 1/4 or some other division of my songtempo in ms are all vectors in their standard appearence (no warp etc) done that way that the numerous changes in level releate to the songtempo? What are most of the shapes for? When it says transient shapes - are those meant to control a VCA to mimic a very short percussive sound to layer above another drum?
Never actually tested that, but I'd expect that the length is fixed and the vectors move within that time up/down/forward/backward. The vectors are NOT related to any time divisions. To say, the vector points are not set on a fixed division. They depend on Warp and Response based on the overall length.
yentzee wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:57 am
2. Sustain. What exactly does that parameter do? Looking at a classic envelope sustain is the level the eg emits after the attack & decay phases are done until the gate is released. In Zadar however the envelope just "plays" until the gate is released. It would be great if there was a resease feature but I didn't get the sustain function so far
Sustain does what sustain usually does. It holds the value, where you set the Sustain parameter to, until the gate goes off. Then the rest of the envelope will be played.
yentzee wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:57 am
3. Using as an oscillator. It doesn't seem to track properly so I am wondering what this should be used for as using it as an oscillator will result in notes out of tune.
Don't know about that.
yentzee wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:57 am
4. What do you use the module for? I am in need of further envelopes as I just don't use Zadar that much but then I think maybe I just haven't thought it through. Maybe I need to have a template with 2 adsr Vectors set to 1/16th of my song tempo, two set to "make a kick envelopes" or maybe one in a sidechain setup.
I don't use it as a standard envelope. Too complicated to set it up IMHO. For that I'd say the standard 4-fader envelope is the easiest.

I use Zadar as modulation over "longer" times. Rise effects, build ups thru whole songs (7 to 8min), kinda random modulation (infinite loop with modulating Warp and Response). Also cool as a modulation source for controlling modulation depth of something else, like the depth of an LFO on the filter.

yentzee
Common Wiggler
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:22 pm

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by yentzee » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:38 am

Thanks for your answer. So the sustain settig makes much more sense.

makesilence
Common Wiggler
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:04 pm

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by makesilence » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:39 pm

Was reading the thread and read a good number of posts about issues with the screen, with the module freezing, etc. Have those been pretty been eliminated by now? Or are some modules still coming out with problems?

User avatar
megarat
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:09 pm
Location: PNW

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by megarat » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:38 pm

makesilence wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:39 pm
Was reading the thread and read a sgood number of posts about issues with the screen, with the module freezing, etc. Have those been pretty been eliminated by now? Or are some modules still coming out with problems?
It’s difficult to get a meaningful answer to your question with a limited survey like this. Any answers won’t serve as a representative sample of Zadar owners, and you likely won’t be able to suss out any trends, which you seem to be looking for by asking if modules are “still coming out with problems”.

An ideal survey would have at least a few questions (Does your Zadar exhibit any chronic problems? How long have you had it? How much use does it get?), but this still wouldn’t account for external factors, like power-related issues.

Speaking for myself, my Zadar has worked flawlessly in the 2+ years that I’ve had it, and it has received a medium amount of use. I also have it paired with a Nin.

yentzee
Common Wiggler
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:22 pm

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by yentzee » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:09 pm

My Zadar wasn't used a lot. I never had it freeze but I think I just start getting problems with the red knob as it starts jumping values now and then even when turning slowly. I am still in the warranty so I might send it in for that if the problem seems to get worse within the next weeks.
I totally agree that using it for standard adsr is very tireing

tommygee
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:14 pm
Location: copenhagen

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by tommygee » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:57 am

I got the pot problems pretty badly. Takes me ages to get to the desired values. No warrenty anymore 😕

moustachioed
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:02 am

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by moustachioed » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:09 am

tommygee wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:57 am
I got the pot problems pretty badly. Takes me ages to get to the desired values. No warrenty anymore 😕
Have you tried the 2.0.2 firmware? It transformed my second-hand Zadar from „almost unusable“ to „only slightly annoying“. You pay the price of much reduced velocity, though.

Also, if you’re in Europe, Xaoc have been very helpful with an out-of-warranty Odessa for me. I only had pay for the postage to them and they fixed it and send it back free of charge. I have not inquired about the Zadar, but I’d imagine they’d be happy to help.

User avatar
exper
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 10514
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:41 am
Location: Southern NJ

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by exper » Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:47 am

moustachioed wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:09 am
tommygee wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:57 am
I got the pot problems pretty badly. Takes me ages to get to the desired values. No warrenty anymore 😕
Have you tried the 2.0.2 firmware? It transformed my second-hand Zadar from „almost unusable“ to „only slightly annoying“. You pay the price of much reduced velocity, though.

Also, if you’re in Europe, Xaoc have been very helpful with an out-of-warranty Odessa for me. I only had pay for the postage to them and they fixed it and send it back free of charge. I have not inquired about the Zadar, but I’d imagine they’d be happy to help.

Out of curiosity, what problem did you have with an Odessa?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Image

FS/T: Mint Digitone - Looking for Digitone Keys

moustachioed
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:02 am

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by moustachioed » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:10 am

exper wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:47 am
Out of curiosity, what problem did you have with an Odessa?
High-pitched whine from the PCB and the fundamental out jumper on the back (switching to square fundamental, that is) stopped working.

tommygee
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:14 pm
Location: copenhagen

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by tommygee » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:37 am

moustachioed wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:09 am
tommygee wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:57 am
I got the pot problems pretty badly. Takes me ages to get to the desired values. No warrenty anymore 😕
Have you tried the 2.0.2 firmware? It transformed my second-hand Zadar from „almost unusable“ to „only slightly annoying“. You pay the price of much reduced velocity, though.

Also, if you’re in Europe, Xaoc have been very helpful with an out-of-warranty Odessa for me. I only had pay for the postage to them and they fixed it and send it back free of charge. I have not inquired about the Zadar, but I’d imagine they’d be happy to help.
I did try the firmware update prior to 2.0.2. a while ago and it did not help - but I will give the newest firmware a shot. Thanks.

User avatar
Mr. Roboto
Common Wiggler
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:37 am
Location: Germany

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Mr. Roboto » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:38 am

Cycle times greater than 600s will still stop the loop functionality and it seems that Xaoc can not fix this issue in the near future (if ever).
Der Sägezahn, der Sägezahn, der hat's mir angetan.

Less talk, more action!

User avatar
m12386
Common Wiggler
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:44 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by m12386 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:25 pm

tommygee wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:37 am
moustachioed wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:09 am
tommygee wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:57 am
I got the pot problems pretty badly. Takes me ages to get to the desired values. No warrenty anymore 😕
Have you tried the 2.0.2 firmware? It transformed my second-hand Zadar from „almost unusable“ to „only slightly annoying“. You pay the price of much reduced velocity, though.

Also, if you’re in Europe, Xaoc have been very helpful with an out-of-warranty Odessa for me. I only had pay for the postage to them and they fixed it and send it back free of charge. I have not inquired about the Zadar, but I’d imagine they’d be happy to help.
I did try the firmware update prior to 2.0.2. a while ago and it did not help - but I will give the newest firmware a shot. Thanks.
I recently upgraded to 2.0.2 and it did not solve my encoder issue unfortunately. I purchased it like new ~1 year ago on Reverb. Hopefully they can fix it in the US without charging a lot.

User avatar
nikmettez
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:27 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by nikmettez » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:18 am

So, after powering my case up today, the screen on my zadar stays black. I'm quite disappointed because it also had the encoder issue , many people already talked about. Not something you would like to see happen on a module!
The fact that the screen has become unresponsive also makes it impossible to try a firmware update (as a last resort).

Sad to say, but i'm not buying anymore modules from XOAC Devices!

medium Rob
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:40 pm

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by medium Rob » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:52 am

nikmettez wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:18 am
Sad to say, but i'm not buying anymore modules from XOAC Devices!
seems a little premature to make such a bold (sweeping, condemning) statement on the forum about XAOC. it's almost like you're trolling for a response. do any other XAOC modules have known, recurring issues, like those that have plagued Zadar? ever think to contact XAOC about your problem first?

yentzee
Common Wiggler
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:22 pm

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by yentzee » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:30 am

medium Rob wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:52 am
nikmettez wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:18 am
Sad to say, but i'm not buying anymore modules from XOAC Devices!
seems a little premature to make such a bold (sweeping, condemning) statement on the forum about XAOC. it's almost like you're trolling for a response. do any other XAOC modules have known, recurring issues, like those that have plagued Zadar? ever think to contact XAOC about your problem first?
I can understand people getting frustrated with this. As the issue is a known problem one would expect information which serial numbers are affected and the possibillity to send in the module fpr replacement of all encoders regardless of their state or a new module. That is how companies deal with poor batches.
As modules are expensive and not everybody can afford a huge rack full of modules it is very likely lots of people got zadar to grab four envelopes plus the extra functions for quite a lot of money. While the function compared to the price is ok it can be really frustrating to have a faulty device you put your savings in which is part of your core concept, buying something else isn't an option at the moment and the setup can't be used as expected.
With professional tools changing four encoders can be done in no time. Surely a hassle for the company but well - somewhat of a nice move. Especially as they do habe pretty awesome modules and doing it that way they would keep a lot of customers as well as themselves happy.
From what I hear and read the people at xaoc are quite friendly and helpful with faulty devices so I would recommend to contact them and get it fixed asap.
During that time get creative with a limited setup

mpTRONIX
Common Wiggler
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:52 am

Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by mpTRONIX » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:12 am

hi,
today my new zadar arrived. (new, not used)
my firmware on it is 2.03.
(I think there is only 2.02 on the xaoc homepage? :hmm: )
but mine shows 2.03 :party:

my real question is= the menu button:

is it normal that the button has play?
image.jpg
the channel button has it just a little to the side, thats ok.
Attachments
image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”