Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Sonic0boom » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:37 pm

Just in case anyone is having trouble with the firmware update stalling out, i went through it a bunch of times until i got it working. During the process (which takes about 15 min), it kept stopping and the console would say something about sync error and making sure the input level was high enough. Kept happening about 8-10 minutes in and would do so every time. I had it from my Windows laptop with notifications turned off and going through my audio interface and then into the Zadar. After an hour, i gave up on that and ran it from my phone to the audio interface and into the Zadar. That worked the first time. I'm guessing that even though i turned off notifications on my laptop, it was making a sound at some point that was killing the firmware process. No such issues on the phone. The instructions say to avoid phones and tablets but since i was going through the audio interface (Focusrite Scarlett), it kept the levels high enough.

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by nostalghia » Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:05 pm

I've had my Zadar for over a year now, luckily haven't had encoder issues, but the display screen no longer comes on when it powers up (buttons light and unit functions, just can't see what I am selecting/editing). I recall someone with that issue mentioning in this thread that they were able to get their screen to come on by holding a button down when powering on their case, but couldn't find the relevant post when I searched. Does someone know which button it was? I've tried holding channel and menu (each, not together), screen still dark. I have it in a Pittsburgh Structure EP-420 case with plenty of power to spare, and all other modules in the case have no problems (and it worked fine in that case for months until recently-screen just stopped lighting up).

And does that solve the problem permanently, or will I likely wind up having to send my unit to XAOC to have the display screen replaced? If so, I will probably wait until after the holidays when all the shipping traffic settles back down to more normal volumes. Does XAOC have a repair facility in the US, or will I need to send it to Poland? I know I will need to get an RMA from them first. And any idea what screen replacement costs if it's out of warranty?
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by ima_jrk » Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:34 pm

nostalghia wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:05 pm
Does XAOC have a repair facility in the US, or will I need to send it to Poland?
Start by sending an email to support. They are usually quick and will walk you through troubleshooting tips. I don’t know about out of warranty repairs but for the two times I’ve needed warranty fixes they had me send to two different technicians in the US. First in NJ, second in PA. Turn around on the NJ module was over 4 weeks. PA just got the module on Tuesday.

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by nostalghia » Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:35 pm

ima_jrk wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:34 pm
nostalghia wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:05 pm
Does XAOC have a repair facility in the US, or will I need to send it to Poland?
Start by sending an email to support. They are usually quick and will walk you through troubleshooting tips. I don’t know about out of warranty repairs but for the two times I’ve needed warranty fixes they had me send to two different technicians in the US. First in NJ, second in PA. Turn around on the NJ module was over 4 weeks. PA just got the module on Tuesday.
Thanks for the quick response. I'll go ahead and contact their support people (was just hoping someone might know a quick or temp fix for "dead" screen). Glad to hear they have US techs available.
Will still probably not send it in until early January to avoid all the holiday shipping madness, especially this year with so many people having to shop online and send gifts out to family, etc.
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Mr. Roboto » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:30 pm

danam0 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:56 pm
Mr. Roboto wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:38 am
I do have an issue with my new Zdar (Firmware v2.0.1). Using longer cycle times (i.e. 600s) the looping (infinity) will not work anymore after a while.

Anyone having a similiar issue?
Yes same version and envelopes stop looping for me when running at 600s+ despite being set on infinity. Very annoying.

I've also noticed that when the time is set around 950+, the envelopes will often freeze and stop progressing altogether.

The only work-arounds I've found for these involve briefly turning the time below 200s and back up. More micromanaging than I'd like. If others have found a solution, I'd be eager to hear it.
I‘m surprised that nobody beside of us is taking care of this issue. Neither any member here nor anybody from Xaoc.
I haven‘t used my Zadar since my post where I explained the issue because I was so annoyed about this. I even removed it from my case because of this.

Nobody else having these issues?
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by BaloErets » Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:10 pm

Mr. Roboto wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:30 pm
danam0 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:56 pm
Mr. Roboto wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:38 am
I do have an issue with my new Zdar (Firmware v2.0.1). Using longer cycle times (i.e. 600s) the looping (infinity) will not work anymore after a while.

Anyone having a similiar issue?
Yes same version and envelopes stop looping for me when running at 600s+ despite being set on infinity. Very annoying.

I've also noticed that when the time is set around 950+, the envelopes will often freeze and stop progressing altogether.

The only work-arounds I've found for these involve briefly turning the time below 200s and back up. More micromanaging than I'd like. If others have found a solution, I'd be eager to hear it.
I‘m surprised that nobody beside of us is taking care of this issue. Neither any member here nor anybody from Xaoc.
I haven‘t used my Zadar since my post where I explained the issue because I was so annoyed about this. I even removed it from my case because of this.

Nobody else having these issues?
It would indeed be nice to hear from Xaoc about this.

Regarding Zadar users here on the forum, I can VERY confidently say that very few users are responding because they have not run into this issue. When people run into problems I think they are never shy to report them in the forums :tu:

What could help people troubleshoot would be if you gave a bit more input as to when the looping stops working with long cycles? The only info we have to go on here right now to help test the behavior is "after a while". We talking 15 minutes or 2 hours?

I'll try the 950+ loop tonight to see how mine behaves. :tu:

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by studio460 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:03 am

BaloErets wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:10 pm
Regarding Zadar users here on the forum, I can VERY confidently say that very few users are responding because they have not run into this issue.
Yes, hopefully (I believe you're likely correct). I've had my Zadar for a bit less than three months and use it in virtually every patch and haven't encountered any issues so far. Really a huge fan of this module. Though I also use Batumi a lot, Zadar is likely my most-used modulator—it's so immediate and simple to use, yet also easily dialed-in to set ultra-precise values when you need it to be.

Recently bought the expander (and Poti as well for my Batumi), but haven't used it yet. Any NIN patching tips to share?
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by megarat » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:19 am

studio460 wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:03 am
Any NIN patching tips to share?
I find Nin to be really straightforward: it gives you the ability to modulate a second parameter, and I use it all the time. To break up the monotony of repeated notes, the parameters I most frequently modulate are warp and time, and then level and response. For random sound effects, I’ve gotten great value out of modulating shape, so it sounds different every time. I love that Zadar has built-in attenuators for its modulation inputs, and since I typically prefer to modulate its parameters subtilely, it lets me dial in the exact paltry amount that I want to trickle in. It’s all so well-thought-out and intuitive.

Nin’s buttons are also great for testing or performance. I use them all the time.

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by BaloErets » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:20 pm

danam0 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:56 pm
I've also noticed that when the time is set around 950+, the envelopes will often freeze and stop progressing altogether.
I tested the other night after reading your post and can confirm a very similar behaviour. In fact I was able to pin-point that at 929 seconds, the envelope keeps moving. At the next step, 932 seconds and anything above that value, it freezes.

Very much worth noting, at least in my experience, is that this behaviour only seems to kick in after a few minutes of the module being powered on. the 2nd time I tested it after a fresh reboot I was no longer experiencing this issue and thought I was crazy, but sure enough it appears as if the problem is there if you wait a couple of minutes after powering on.

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by danam0 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:51 pm

BaloErets wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:20 pm
danam0 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:56 pm
I've also noticed that when the time is set around 950+, the envelopes will often freeze and stop progressing altogether.
I tested the other night after reading your post and can confirm a very similar behaviour. In fact I was able to pin-point that at 929 seconds, the envelope keeps moving. At the next step, 932 seconds and anything above that value, it freezes.

Very much worth noting, at least in my experience, is that this behaviour only seems to kick in after a few minutes of the module being powered on. the 2nd time I tested it after a fresh reboot I was no longer experiencing this issue and thought I was crazy, but sure enough it appears as if the problem is there if you wait a couple of minutes after powering on.
:deadbanana:

wrote to the xaoc xrew about this and never heard back, so... seems we're stuck micromanaging our drones!

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Kosmikos » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:36 pm

Has anyone had any issue with screen burn on Zadar? Or is there a screen saver? All the videos I've watched seem to show the envelope shape staying perpetually on screen.

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by BaloErets » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:13 pm

Kosmikos wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:36 pm
Has anyone had any issue with screen burn on Zadar? Or is there a screen saver? All the videos I've watched seem to show the envelope shape staying perpetually on screen.
There's no screensaver, but the screen turns off after a couple minutes of manual inactivity.

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Kosmikos » Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:31 pm

That’s good to know. Thanks!
I’m looking at Zadar to replace my Stages. I’ve realised that Stages is not that great for complex envelope, and creating a simple ADSR already takes 4 segments leaving only 2 segments for decay/LFO/S&H.
Anyone else made the jump from Stages?

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Electro Something » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:26 pm

Does the Zadar have a lot of issues with transients? If I trigger the envelope repeatedly very quickly I hear a clicking sound. Increasing the attack doesn't seem to help.

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Dark Barn » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:13 pm

Electro Something wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:26 pm
Does the Zadar have a lot of issues with transients? If I trigger the envelope repeatedly very quickly I hear a clicking sound. Increasing the attack doesn't seem to help.
Does retriggering the envelope cause it to reset to 0v? You might be hearing the squaring off of the tail rather than whatever you have the attack set to.
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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by johannes » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:10 am

Electro Something wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:26 pm
Does the Zadar have a lot of issues with transients? If I trigger the envelope repeatedly very quickly I hear a clicking sound. Increasing the attack doesn't seem to help.
did you tried switching the retrigger behaviour?
from the manual:

"The dg option causes the envelope to restart from the begin- ning whenever a new trigger arrives which makes it instantly jump to 0V. The an behavior is more complex — the restarting is from the first occurrence of the same voltage the enve- lope had when the trigger arrived, thus there is no glitch due to retriggering"

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Fog Door » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:21 pm

Is there are any indication of when we might see some more UK stock of Zadar? I've been waiting ages. If it is going to be several more months that is cool, I will spend my Zadar money on another module from my list until we see some more stock. Of course, my nightmare scenario is, I blow my Zadar cash and hey presto! Back in stock next week :deadbanana:

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Kosmikos » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:26 pm

Thomann lists it back in stock in 5 to 7 weeks. Which probably means 2 to 12 weeks, if that’s of any help...
:moneyburn:

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Electro Something » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:38 am

johannes wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:10 am
did you tried switching the retrigger behaviour?
from the manual:

"The dg option causes the envelope to restart from the begin- ning whenever a new trigger arrives which makes it instantly jump to 0V. The an behavior is more complex — the restarting is from the first occurrence of the same voltage the enve- lope had when the trigger arrived, thus there is no glitch due to retriggering"
Dark Barn wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:13 pm

Does retriggering the envelope cause it to reset to 0v? You might be hearing the squaring off of the tail rather than whatever you have the attack set to.
Yeah that sorta solves the issue.

Is that Zadar not as "snappy" (is that the right word?) as, let's say, Maths? I feel like the Zadar isn't great for super quick envelopes (I'm using Veils as my VCA).
Last edited by Electro Something on Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by studioutopia » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:57 am

Kosmikos wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:31 pm
That’s good to know. Thanks!
I’m looking at Zadar to replace my Stages. I’ve realised that Stages is not that great for complex envelope, and creating a simple ADSR already takes 4 segments leaving only 2 segments for decay/LFO/S&H.
Anyone else made the jump from Stages?
Of all of my envelope/function generators, Stages is my least favourite. Long version of my assessment:
For fast/pinging/snappy stuff I love Falistri and Quadrax.
For complex/ADSR stuff I will reach for Quadrax.
For anything more complex/long/unique - I use Zadar.
And for modulation - simple LFOs: ochd. clocked: Pamela. Best LFOs and smooth random: Batumi. and then Zadar for really interesting modulations.
Zadar is unmatched at what it does. Maybe Kermit can come close?
So... Stages - while it can do AR, ASR, ADSR, and various modulations - it is just not as good at any of them as the Xaoc modules, or Quadigy; and just sucks at setting up a fast and controllable workflow and the snappy responses as Quadrax or Falistri.
I like stages, but it is in most cases a "jack of all trades, master of none".

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Electro Something » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:28 pm

studioutopia wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:57 am
For complex/ADSR stuff I will reach for Quadrax.
I'm realizing that the Zadar can't do everything I need. Been trying to decide between the Quadigy and Stages, but clearly need to add the Quadrax into the mix.

How many ADSR's can the Quadrax do simultaneously?

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by studioutopia » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:36 pm

Electro Something wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:28 pm
studioutopia wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:57 am
For complex/ADSR stuff I will reach for Quadrax.
I'm realizing that the Zadar can't do everything I need. Been trying to decide between the Quadigy and Stages, but clearly need to add the Quadrax into the mix.

How many ADSR's can the Quadrax do simultaneously?
I've never actually tried to approximate an ADSR with Quadrax. Quadrax can do a lot of things - but its specialty is four AD or ASR envelopes. It is a very west-coast oriented function generator.

If you want ADSR through to DAHDSR - Quadigy is amazing. Four of them.
Stages can do one DAHDSHR envelope. Quadigy can do four of them simultaneously. And the controls are great.
Last edited by studioutopia on Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by studioutopia » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:37 pm

studioutopia wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:36 pm
Electro Something wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:28 pm
studioutopia wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:57 am
For complex/ADSR stuff I will reach for Quadrax.
There is alternate firmware for Stages to do 6 of the same DAHDSR envelopes (one set of controls for all 6). But that is probably only useful for someone creating a polysynth.

The controls/display on Quadigy far surpass the color-code/button click modes of Stages.

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Kosmikos » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:48 pm

My Zadar arrives on Friday apparently :w00t:
I’ve started reading the manual, looked at the waveforms, re-watched the Divkid videos. I really hope I’ll like it.

I’m amazed it can also be used as VCO. I’m wondering if anyone has tried it as a chiptune VCO. With all its stepped waveforms, that looks ideal.

I agree Quadigy looks very interesting, but 14HP is a big ask for me. Replacing Stages by Zadar is also allowing me to stuff my first granular module into my main case. I’ll see where this leads me... :mrgreen:

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Re: Xaoc Zadar, Quadruple Envelope Generator + Nin expander

Post by Smoof » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:06 pm

Kosmikos wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:48 pm
My Zadar arrives on Friday apparently :w00t:
I’ve started reading the manual, looked at the waveforms, re-watched the Divkid videos. I really hope I’ll like it.

I’m amazed it can also be used as VCO. I’m wondering if anyone has tried it as a chiptune VCO. With all its stepped waveforms, that looks ideal.

I agree Quadigy looks very interesting, but 14HP is a big ask for me. Replacing Stages by Zadar is also allowing me to stuff my first granular module into my main case. I’ll see where this leads me... :mrgreen:
Zadar is a powerful module, and despite not really being ADSR style, it will give interesting results even in places where you would normally use ADSR envelopes. By combining multiple channels through a logic module, eg taking the minimum of two channels and selecting the individual shapes and sustain parameter carefully, it can very well emulate the behavior of an ASR envelope, plus interesting shapes for the indivual stages.

However do not expect it to work as your conventional VCO. It simply won't track V/Oct precisely enough. Thats especially true, when your pitch CV source does not allow calibration. Otherwise, the calbration procedure should be done manually. For instance, it works quite well with the kind of linear tracking function you can set up on the Elektron Analog Four. I am not sure if it really helps a lot, but you can try to set a smaller modulation amount for the time on Zadar of around 20 or so and then choose a steeper pitch CV slope, which may increase the resolution. Other than that, with an analog style modulation sequencer with CV per step it should be possible to program simple pitch sequences.

Further, though you get waveforms like saw, square, triangle, sine, and a couple of other useful ones, most of the waveforms just aren't particularly interesting sonically, at least not when compared to those that you would usually find on a dedicated wavetable oscillator.

Nevertheless, the resolution of the waveforms is insanely high, giving you perfect waveforms even at extremely fast settings. I mostly use audio rate waves for transients in percussive patches. When modulating other sound generators, Zadar is really good for creating all kinds of claps, snares, kicks etc..

Finally, at least on my unit, i notice that attaching NIN will introduce a tiny amount of artifacts when the time parameter is in the very short range.

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