Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

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shkrjn
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by shkrjn » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:03 am

Wubz wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:29 am
studioutopia wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:00 am
Dragonaut wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:52 pm
hpsmasher wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:57 pm
Wubz wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:15 pm
Does anyone experience slight pitch warble when a patch cable is plugged in v/oct? Only started noticing today. Tried two different sequencers. Happens on both oscillators. I've tried different power supply, patch cables and power ribbon cable. Same thing.
I had this issue with my HD MKIII (just a slight movement of a few hertz), but it ultimately turned out to be my power supply. It did not like the intellijel tps80w in any of the cases I was using one in.
Haven’t noticed it yet but I did notice the occasional slew on my pitch sequences. I know this is a known issue that’s been worked on but I thought I should report that it’s still occasionally apparent. Hasn’t annoyed me yet. Actually sounds pretty darn cool and had me adding a sharp exponential slew to some sequences on another oscillator tonight.
I have experienced both the V/Oct warble when droning (from USTA, Intellijel Tete and MIDI 1U) and the slew on both PH3 and HD3. I do have the latest firmware on them. It's not often, but I've heard both.
It's not bad enough that I would ever stop using both of these weapons. Like Dragonaut said, sometimes the slew can be fun... It gives them a bit of extra character ;-)
Mine is bad enough that it's easily noticeable, especially when droning or even doing long notes. This problem either wasn't there before or is getting worse as it's now a lot more noticeable. Pitch is off up to 5 hz at higher frequencies. It sounds like sample and hold plugged into the v/oct. With the cable not patched to v/oct input the oscillator is stable. Have emailed IME. Hopefully they can help out as I love this thing. I attached an example.
Chiming in a bit late - I have the same issue with my Piston Honda MK III - The pitch warble is intermittent and doesn't happen all of the time. I also have issues with tracking - in some octaves it will consistently be flat by 20-25 cents and when I get to the next octave it will snap back into tune. It is not an issue where it gradually goes out of tune like an analog oscillator where the pitch gradually goes flat as you climb up the keyboard - the lack of consistency makes it particularly frustrating as I cannot simply adjust the tracking trimmer on the back. I was wondering where you were at with your issue and if you got it fixed? Does anyone know if this issue has been resolved with newer batches? I would consider just buying a new one rather than trying to get mine fixed. I recently changed my case to an intellijel performance case, so our power supplies seem to be a constant. I was using a trogotronic case and PSU before - I'm not sure if I had the same issue with that PSU because I was not using my modular as often then. I love the sound of this module and really want it to work as it should

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by dooj88 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:38 am

i noticed my mk2 pitching acting up when i had an LIP on the same power supply. not sure if it wasn't getting quite enough juice, or the larger 5v requirement some NE modules have was messing with things.. but anyway after i took the LIP out everything was fine again. just spitballin' - check your juice headroom and any crazy 5v draw on the same power supply.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by tommygee » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:08 pm

I haven’t had any pitch warples issues with my unit. But for some strange reason the sound is always slightly portamentoed lol

shkrjn
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by shkrjn » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:16 pm

dooj88 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:38 am
i noticed my mk2 pitching acting up when i had an LIP on the same power supply. not sure if it wasn't getting quite enough juice, or the larger 5v requirement some NE modules have was messing with things.. but anyway after i took the LIP out everything was fine again. just spitballin' - check your juice headroom and any crazy 5v draw on the same power supply.
I'll check out the power draw and how it compares to the what the psu can deliver. Although it would be disappointing if I was maxing out already, it would be a simple and manageable solution. btw, what do you mean by LIP ? NE is noise engineering?

shkrjn
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by shkrjn » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:30 pm

dooj88 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:38 am
i noticed my mk2 pitching acting up when i had an LIP on the same power supply. not sure if it wasn't getting quite enough juice, or the larger 5v requirement some NE modules have was messing with things.. but anyway after i took the LIP out everything was fine again. just spitballin' - check your juice headroom and any crazy 5v draw on the same power supply.
plugging all of my modules into modular grid and it seems like that PSU headroom is probably not the issue. My intellijel case can do 3000ma at both +12 and -12 and 1500 ma at 5v - i am well under on all rails. thanks for the response though

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by dooj88 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:57 pm

shkrjn wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:30 pm
dooj88 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:38 am
i noticed my mk2 pitching acting up when i had an LIP on the same power supply. not sure if it wasn't getting quite enough juice, or the larger 5v requirement some NE modules have was messing with things.. but anyway after i took the LIP out everything was fine again. just spitballin' - check your juice headroom and any crazy 5v draw on the same power supply.
plugging all of my modules into modular grid and it seems like that PSU headroom is probably not the issue. My intellijel case can do 3000ma at both +12 and -12 and 1500 ma at 5v - i am well under on all rails. thanks for the response though
yeah, i meant the loquelic iteritas percido. i think my 3mA uzeus was at around 70-80% draw at the time, so it may for whatever reason be sensitive.

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soggybag
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by soggybag » Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:57 am

What am I doing wrong, last night I’m playing with the PH MK III, I get a good sound, and I’m really enjoying the sound of turning the FM/EXT IN Attenuator. So I think 🤔 to myself “gotta put this under CV control!”

And, it just doesn’t sound the same. I switched the oscillators options menu CV and it doesn’t have the deep FM mod you get from turning the knob manually. I tried modulating the input with Quadrax and Maths.

What am I missing?

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lomma-kommun
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by lomma-kommun » Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:23 am

Haha placed an order (at schneidersladen) in May because i red here about a new batch shipping. But i'm still sitting here with my 17hp gap.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:26 am

soggybag wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:57 am
What am I doing wrong, last night I’m playing with the PH MK III, I get a good sound, and I’m really enjoying the sound of turning the FM/EXT IN Attenuator. So I think 🤔 to myself “gotta put this under CV control!”

And, it just doesn’t sound the same. I switched the oscillators options menu CV and it doesn’t have the deep FM mod you get from turning the knob manually. I tried modulating the input with Quadrax and Maths.

What am I missing?
Did you solved it?
Did you fed an already enveloped modulation signal in fm input?

Karl_Joseph
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Karl_Joseph » Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:25 am

johannes wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:26 am
soggybag wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:57 am
What am I doing wrong, last night I’m playing with the PH MK III, I get a good sound, and I’m really enjoying the sound of turning the FM/EXT IN Attenuator. So I think 🤔 to myself “gotta put this under CV control!”

And, it just doesn’t sound the same. I switched the oscillators options menu CV and it doesn’t have the deep FM mod you get from turning the knob manually. I tried modulating the input with Quadrax and Maths.

What am I missing?
Did you solved it?
Did you fed an already enveloped modulation signal in fm input?
I don’t have the module in front of me, but under the oscillator menu (I think) there is a parameter for frequency or FM amount. You want to change that to FM amount.
- KARL

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johannes
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:45 am

@ soggybag
not sure if you know that: one of last firmwareupdates enables you to patch the fm index seperately (cv +- 8v input) from fm modulation signal ...
and as karl mentioned, you have to set that up in the menu.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by soggybag » Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:13 pm

Karl_Joseph wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:25 am
johannes wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:26 am
soggybag wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:57 am
What am I doing wrong, last night I’m playing with the PH MK III, I get a good sound, and I’m really enjoying the sound of turning the FM/EXT IN Attenuator. So I think 🤔 to myself “gotta put this under CV control!”

And, it just doesn’t sound the same. I switched the oscillators options menu CV and it doesn’t have the deep FM mod you get from turning the knob manually. I tried modulating the input with Quadrax and Maths.

What am I missing?
Did you solved it?
Did you fed an already enveloped modulation signal in fm input?
I don’t have the module in front of me, but under the oscillator menu (I think) there is a parameter for frequency or FM amount. You want to change that to FM amount.
Thanks for the reply. I’m using 1.81 version of the software. In the default state. If I listen to the Mix output and manually turn the FM/EXT In knob I get a great range of modulation from OSC B. If I feed OSC B into the FM input and turn the knob again I get a great FM modulation.

If I feed an LFO into the FM input I can hear it using the LFO to FM OSC A.

If I go to the OSC A menu and scroll to the bottom the menu item is: CV Mode. The options here are: Frequency and FM amount. These both sound the same as the default setting.

I just tested this as I am writing and the CV mode sounds the same in both settings. So I’m not using it correctly or there is something else wrong?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Karl_Joseph » Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:24 pm

The FM amount setting controls the amount or “index” of how much osc b modulates osc a freq. If youre using an LFO, frequency will use the LFO to modulate osc a freq. If you use fm amount, the LFO will control the amount of osc b modulating osc a frequency - just like turning the knob.

I think.

I haven’t tried using an LFO to control the index or fm amount so I’m not sure what the result should be. Not sure if a bipolar signal works when using fm amount.

I’m an amateur and probably shouldn’t be advising people. Lol.
- KARL

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by soggybag » Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:28 am

Karl_Joseph wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:24 pm
The FM amount setting controls the amount or “index” of how much osc b modulates osc a freq. If youre using an LFO, frequency will use the LFO to modulate osc a freq. If you use fm amount, the LFO will control the amount of osc b modulating osc a frequency - just like turning the knob.

I think.

I haven’t tried using an LFO to control the index or fm amount so I’m not sure what the result should be. Not sure if a bipolar signal works when using fm amount.

I’m an amateur and probably shouldn’t be advising people. Lol.
Sounds to me like both settings on the menu do the same thing, they don’t sound any different. With a CV source plugged into the FM jack the knob acts as an attenuator.

What I’d like is to use a CV to get the sound that have when turning the FM knob with no FM input, which is what I thought the FM CV option on the menu would do.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Karl_Joseph » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:16 am

soggybag wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:28 am
Karl_Joseph wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:24 pm
The FM amount setting controls the amount or “index” of how much osc b modulates osc a freq. If youre using an LFO, frequency will use the LFO to modulate osc a freq. If you use fm amount, the LFO will control the amount of osc b modulating osc a frequency - just like turning the knob.

I think.

I haven’t tried using an LFO to control the index or fm amount so I’m not sure what the result should be. Not sure if a bipolar signal works when using fm amount.

I’m an amateur and probably shouldn’t be advising people. Lol.
Sounds to me like both settings on the menu do the same thing, they don’t sound any different. With a CV source plugged into the FM jack the knob acts as an attenuator.

What I’d like is to use a CV to get the sound that have when turning the FM knob with no FM input, which is what I thought the FM CV option on the menu would do.
Are you using the fm/ext in input? Using FM amount (from the menu) and patching in cv to the fm/ext in, it should act just like turning the knob - modulating the amount of osc b freq modulating osc a. If it’s not, you’re doing something wrong.
- KARL

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soggybag
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by soggybag » Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:28 pm

Karl_Joseph wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:16 am
soggybag wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:28 am
Karl_Joseph wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:24 pm
The FM amount setting controls the amount or “index” of how much osc b modulates osc a freq. If youre using an LFO, frequency will use the LFO to modulate osc a freq. If you use fm amount, the LFO will control the amount of osc b modulating osc a frequency - just like turning the knob.

I think.

I haven’t tried using an LFO to control the index or fm amount so I’m not sure what the result should be. Not sure if a bipolar signal works when using fm amount.

I’m an amateur and probably shouldn’t be advising people. Lol.
Sounds to me like both settings on the menu do the same thing, they don’t sound any different. With a CV source plugged into the FM jack the knob acts as an attenuator.

What I’d like is to use a CV to get the sound that have when turning the FM knob with no FM input, which is what I thought the FM CV option on the menu would do.
Are you using the fm/ext in input? Using FM amount (from the menu) and patching in cv to the fm/ext in, it should act just like turning the knob - modulating the amount of osc b freq modulating osc a. If it’s not, you’re doing something wrong.
Then I’m doing something wrong, or it’s not working! Because this is exactly what I am doing, or at least think I’m doing.

I have an LFO plugged into to the FM/EXT IN on OSC A. I hear the frequency being modulated by the LFO. This sounds the same for either of the two menu options under CV Mode.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Karl_Joseph » Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:51 pm

soggybag wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:28 pm
Karl_Joseph wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:16 am
soggybag wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:28 am
Karl_Joseph wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:24 pm
The FM amount setting controls the amount or “index” of how much osc b modulates osc a freq. If youre using an LFO, frequency will use the LFO to modulate osc a freq. If you use fm amount, the LFO will control the amount of osc b modulating osc a frequency - just like turning the knob.

I think.

I haven’t tried using an LFO to control the index or fm amount so I’m not sure what the result should be. Not sure if a bipolar signal works when using fm amount.

I’m an amateur and probably shouldn’t be advising people. Lol.
Sounds to me like both settings on the menu do the same thing, they don’t sound any different. With a CV source plugged into the FM jack the knob acts as an attenuator.

What I’d like is to use a CV to get the sound that have when turning the FM knob with no FM input, which is what I thought the FM CV option on the menu would do.
Are you using the fm/ext in input? Using FM amount (from the menu) and patching in cv to the fm/ext in, it should act just like turning the knob - modulating the amount of osc b freq modulating osc a. If it’s not, you’re doing something wrong.
Then I’m doing something wrong, or it’s not working! Because this is exactly what I am doing, or at least think I’m doing.

I have an LFO plugged into to the FM/EXT IN on OSC A. I hear the frequency being modulated by the LFO. This sounds the same for either of the two menu options under CV Mode.
What happens if you use an envelope instead of an LFO?
- KARL

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by transferpoint » Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:50 pm

lomma-kommun wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:23 am
Haha placed an order (at schneidersladen) in May because i red here about a new batch shipping. But i'm still sitting here with my 17hp gap.
Ordered in May as well, but from Perfect Circuit. Looking forward to it... no clue if/when it'll ever ship haha.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by soggybag » Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:57 pm

Karl_Joseph wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:51 pm
soggybag wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:28 pm
Karl_Joseph wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:16 am
soggybag wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:28 am
Karl_Joseph wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:24 pm
The FM amount setting controls the amount or “index” of how much osc b modulates osc a freq. If youre using an LFO, frequency will use the LFO to modulate osc a freq. If you use fm amount, the LFO will control the amount of osc b modulating osc a frequency - just like turning the knob.

I think.

I haven’t tried using an LFO to control the index or fm amount so I’m not sure what the result should be. Not sure if a bipolar signal works when using fm amount.

I’m an amateur and probably shouldn’t be advising people. Lol.
Sounds to me like both settings on the menu do the same thing, they don’t sound any different. With a CV source plugged into the FM jack the knob acts as an attenuator.

What I’d like is to use a CV to get the sound that have when turning the FM knob with no FM input, which is what I thought the FM CV option on the menu would do.
Are you using the fm/ext in input? Using FM amount (from the menu) and patching in cv to the fm/ext in, it should act just like turning the knob - modulating the amount of osc b freq modulating osc a. If it’s not, you’re doing something wrong.
Then I’m doing something wrong, or it’s not working! Because this is exactly what I am doing, or at least think I’m doing.

I have an LFO plugged into to the FM/EXT IN on OSC A. I hear the frequency being modulated by the LFO. This sounds the same for either of the two menu options under CV Mode.
What happens if you use an envelope instead of an LFO?
Sounds the same. Anything into the FM CV sounds like FM modulation no matter which of the two menu options I use.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:02 pm

And If you feed the lfo into the cv +/-8 v input instead?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by autopoiesis » Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:45 pm

Yeah johannes has it right. Use the input labeled "CV".

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by soggybag » Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:55 pm

autopoiesis wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:45 pm
Yeah johannes has it right. Use the input labeled "CV".
That’s it! I knew I had to be doing something wrong. I guess the FM input is only for audio signals so they use the FM CV input to control the FM amount when switch it in the menu. Thanks!

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by tommygee » Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:27 am

soggybag wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:55 pm
autopoiesis wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:45 pm
Yeah johannes has it right. Use the input labeled "CV".
That’s it! I knew I had to be doing something wrong. I guess the FM input is only for audio signals so they use the FM CV input to control the FM amount when switch it in the menu. Thanks!
Where, and in what menu, do you switch this ?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by autopoiesis » Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:16 am

soggybag wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:55 pm
autopoiesis wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:45 pm
Yeah johannes has it right. Use the input labeled "CV".
That’s it! I knew I had to be doing something wrong. I guess the FM input is only for audio signals so they use the FM CV input to control the FM amount when switch it in the menu. Thanks!
Yes, "FM/EXT IN" is labeled "AC" underneath on my panel, meaning it's AC-coupled. You can even put a different oscillator into the "FM/EXT IN" and then use the CV input to control its amplitude before hitting the TZFM bus, if you've chosen that the CV jack controls FM index.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by autopoiesis » Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:19 am

tommygee wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:27 am
soggybag wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:55 pm
autopoiesis wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:45 pm
Yeah johannes has it right. Use the input labeled "CV".
That’s it! I knew I had to be doing something wrong. I guess the FM input is only for audio signals so they use the FM CV input to control the FM amount when switch it in the menu. Thanks!
Where, and in what menu, do you switch this ?
If your PH3's firmware version is below 1.7, you won't be able to use this. Release notes say:

"
v1.7 - April 25, 2020

Added a new parameter, 'CV Destination'. Access it from each oscillator menu. 'CV Freq' is the normal behavior of the oscillator's attenuated CV input modulating its frequency. 'FM Amount' makes this CV change the modulation amount of the signal present at the 'FM' input instead, summed with the manual control.
"

http://www.industrialmusicelectronics.com/products/21 > Firmware . Hope you have a Pickit!

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