Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

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thatsmidnight
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by thatsmidnight » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:05 pm

dahliafae wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:57 pm
Does anyone know if the Piston Honda is available to purchase anywhere? Or if it will be back in stock soon?
If you're good with used, it looks like you can find one on Reverb.
:goo: Wiggling :goo: in :goo: VCV Rack :goo: land! :goo:

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dahliafae
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by dahliafae » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:27 pm

thatsmidnight wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:05 pm
dahliafae wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:57 pm
Does anyone know if the Piston Honda is available to purchase anywhere? Or if it will be back in stock soon?
If you're good with used, it looks like you can find one on Reverb.
Thank you! Yes totally fine with used! I think I only see MK2s though:/ are they quite a bit different?

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Sinamsis
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Sinamsis » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:18 pm

dahliafae wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:27 pm
thatsmidnight wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:05 pm
dahliafae wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:57 pm
Does anyone know if the Piston Honda is available to purchase anywhere? Or if it will be back in stock soon?
If you're good with used, it looks like you can find one on Reverb.
Thank you! Yes totally fine with used! I think I only see MK2s though:/ are they quite a bit different?
Totally different

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r_omega_
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by r_omega_ » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:06 pm

Yesterday I finally got down to business learning my PH3. I went into it having read blurbs about the V/Oct issues, so maybe I was kind of looking out for issues with that--seek and you shall find I guess. At the end of the day though, I feel it's quite a small issue, and if you really wanna work around it, it's possible per @Cfcarter's solution upstream. Aside from that, I wasn't feeling the manual, and on first use the workflow kinda left me feeling frustrated. So I took it out of my case thinking I was going to sell it.

Afterwards, I started playing with the FM functionality of my pair of Intellijel Dixie VCOs. Learning the PH made me realize I knew little about FM synthesis so I wanted to experiment, and I soon realized I could not get my Dixies sounding as interesting as the internal FM on the PH with the same ease. So today I sat down and did the work, read some articles, and watched some videos on FM. I felt much clearer on the concept, and started getting much more interesting, useful sounds out of my Dixies.

So then I decided to rack the PH again, and I ended up having a lot more fun with it this time. For the moment, using it for drones seems like a great idea, though I'm open to tracking it V/Oct despite its quirkiness in that department. I'm excited to experiment with all kinds of combinations of FM, dual oscillator mode, different unisons, morphing the wavetables, and using CV to control the FM index and the wavetable morphing. :mrgreen:

Long story short, this module is undeniably oozing character. As frustrated as I was with it after my first use, I couldn't deny the uniqueness of its sound and feature set. That stayed with me and I'm glad I gave it another chance.

Cfcarter
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Cfcarter » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:17 pm

Yeah! It's important, as always in the land of Modular and restrain yourself. Don't buy anything in a rush, don't sell anything in a rush! :)

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by SavageMessiah » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:24 am

That's why I haven't sold mine, despite my annoyance. I've gotten some pretty great sounds out of it so I imagine it will work its way back into my case before too long.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Byzero » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:08 am

studioutopia wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:55 pm
SavageMessiah wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:57 pm
Flamusic wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:11 pm
I wrote with IME more than a year ago about the pitch tracking problems.
Never got a satisfying answer.
I was definitely not expecting it to be the expected behavior, I figured it was a problem with my module.

For those deciding on the module, the problem is that the reverse current protection diode (I think) on the pitch input creates a small deadband. If you tune the oscillator to, say, C3 with 0v on the input and then bump the input to 1V it will be about 20 cents flat (YMMV). That offset will stay pretty consistent as the voltage increases so it's not a tracking issue per se. It's a weird choice. I always treat 0V as the lowest note I would want and tune to that and I imagine most other people do that too.
Actually this is my biggest bitch about IME modules.
Everything else I have has bipolar pitch. A few reasons:
- Mordax DATA can't tune anything below C1, I tune everything with 0V = C3 or C4.
- When I am tuning, I need to do it while the sequence is in play, so this means pulling the V/Oct, and
patching an output to DATA. Tune 0V to C3, plug in the pitch input and then bring it back into the mix.
If you try to tune a VCO where 0V = C0, then the only way to tune it with a tuner (who can tune C0 with their ear anyway), is by plugging in a dummy 3V or more so you can tune at a stable pitch.
Thankfully both PH3 and HD3 have built in tuners, so finding +/- a few cents is pretty easy. And with USTA, you can flip V/Oct from Bipolar/Polar really easily. But it is still a pain in the ass.
If these two modules didn't sound so DAMN GOOD, I'd possibly get rid of them just for that reason alone.
If I just used a 3V dummy to tune all my other VCOs, I could make unipolar pitch the same on all of my sources, and have a similar workflow, right?
Nope. Because bipolar pitch is so important for Complex Oscillators (ie. all my other oscillators) - you need to be able to retain the flexibility to divide the rate of your modulator below the carrier. Tune the Carrier, and manipulate your Modulator. Even OP A and OP B on Hertz Donut work that way. Their pitches can go below the pitch of the primary, even if the primary is set at 0V = C0. So even HD3 works in a bipolar methodology - just a shame it's pitch input doesn't.

Oh hey, thanks. I never could understand the weird tuning issues I sometimes found with my PH. Now I know… run the v/Oct through a precision add. Thanks
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r_omega_
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by r_omega_ » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:17 pm

My original post was asking about the sync, but I think I understand how it works now (there's nothing in the manual on it). When the sync voltage goes positive, it hard syncs to zero, until the sync voltage returns to negative again, then it retriggers the internal waveform from zero and it plays unchanged until the sync voltage goes positive again. This creates some harsh but interesting harmonics. Very different in my experience but cool.
Last edited by r_omega_ on Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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scragz
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by scragz » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:22 pm

r_omega_ wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:17 pm
What on earth is the sync doing on this thing? There is absolutely nothing in the manual about it. (Really??) Using a scope, it looks like it's zeroing out any time a positive voltage is present at the sync input, and letting the PH's internal oscillator pass to the output unchanged when there is a negative voltage at the sync input...??? I will admit that this create some interesting "harsh" harmonics due to the lopping off of the wave, but does this in any way at all resemble traditional hard of soft sync??
It used to be normal on the first few firmwares but at some point in the past year or two it started being all wacky like this. I think it's a regression introduced by some other bug fixes.

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r_omega_
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by r_omega_ » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:24 pm

scragz wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:22 pm
r_omega_ wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:17 pm
What on earth is the sync doing on this thing? There is absolutely nothing in the manual about it. (Really??) Using a scope, it looks like it's zeroing out any time a positive voltage is present at the sync input, and letting the PH's internal oscillator pass to the output unchanged when there is a negative voltage at the sync input...??? I will admit that this create some interesting "harsh" harmonics due to the lopping off of the wave, but does this in any way at all resemble traditional hard of soft sync??
It used to be normal on the first few firmwares but at some point in the past year or two it started being all wacky like this. I think it's a regression introduced by some other bug fixes.
Thanks! Please see my edit above. I was actually convinced it was intentional behavior haha.

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