The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

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neil.johnson
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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by neil.johnson » Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:48 pm

The_hitcher wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:41 pm
I just started building DIY modules and a lot of folks use a "bench power Supply" I can gather what that is by the name. However, not having one I use my rack. Can you damage your power supply in your case with a muffed up module? The magic smoke came out of one build so far but it had resistors in place in case power was accidentilly inverted. Is my power supply going to be okay? Tip top mantis case.
The one I recommend is the HP 6236B: https://www.njohnson.co.uk/index.php?me ... enu=8#psus

You were probably lucky in your case that the module did not damage the power supply, nor any other modules plugged into it.

Best to build and debug your new design first, and only once you are happy it is working correctly then bring it into your rack.

Neil
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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by The_hitcher » Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:56 pm

I actually have a set of Tip Top Bus Boards and a power supply I no longer use. But you're saying that damage to the PSU could have been done. I build these modules, but I don't really know that much about what's actually going on. Could be the ADD, but looking at schematics gives me a headache.

I guess you'd have to whip up some kind of solution to connecting to that thing? Some kind of jumpers to the module?

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by mr221 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:31 pm

Has anyone used the A-100SSB in the doepfer a-100LC1? Curious if this would be a better or worse option than a behringer CP1A for powering a bunch of modules.

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by JimboJones » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:22 am

I'm planning on switching my uZeus for a Source D'Energie due to the bigger -12V headroom (500mA on the uZeus is not enough). Eowave recommend a power supply with 4A max., the one I use for my uZeus checks all the boxes but has 4,62A max. Would this be a problem or can I use it without worries on the Source D'Energie?

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by Ricochet » Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:25 pm

DOEPFER PSU V3.0

my question applies to the primary mains connection for 220V
doepfer PSU V3.0  - primary side
doepfer PSU V3.0 - primary side

primary side - detail
primary side - detail
detail left
detail left
detail right
detail right
you can see the connections J9 / J11 ​​and J13 / J23

measured resistance between 9-11 and 13-23 each about 12 ohms

are these the two coil turns for 110V AC each?

And is it correct to create a bridge from J11 to J13 and then to connect 220V AC to J9 and J23 ?!!
sailing away with the first winds of the new day !

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by _lampshade_ » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:04 am

Image

So i hit the limit of 500 on the negative 12 volt rail of my tiptop uzeus with boost adapter.

I have the Ikarie filter coming in the mail and plan to get the Ens osc soon as well 100 and 50 respectively on -12 v which puts me at 514.

Should i consider adding another flying bus power supply just to handle the slight overage or should i just go ahead and upgrade to a whole new supply that can handle it? or suck it up and try to get rid of / swap out modules for equivalent ones ones with less power usage on -12v.

I have had no problems with the Zuess up till now and i don't want to expand past 6u 140.


Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask

Thanks

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by Ricochet » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:47 am

Ricochet wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:25 pm
DOEPFER PSU V3.0

my question applies to the primary mains connection for 220V

doepfer PSU V3.0-1.jpg



doepfer PSU V3.0-2.jpg
doepfer PSU V3.0-3.jpg
doepfer PSU V3.0-4.jpg

you can see the connections J9 / J11 ​​and J13 / J23

measured resistance between 9-11 and 13-23 each about 12 ohms

are these the two coil turns for 110V AC each?

And is it correct to create a bridge from J11 to J13 and then to connect 220V AC to J9 and J23 ?!!
the solution of the primary connection is:
erica PSU V3.0.jpg
110V = J13 / J23 ... and J9 / J11 are not used (insulation !!)

220V = J9 / J 13 ....and J11 / J23 are not used (insulation!)

It's an erica-synth PSU indeed, not doepfer
sailing away with the first winds of the new day !

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by electrosandwich » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:49 pm

_lampshade_ wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:04 am
Image

So i hit the limit of 500 on the negative 12 volt rail of my tiptop uzeus with boost adapter.

I have the Ikarie filter coming in the mail and plan to get the Ens osc soon as well 100 and 50 respectively on -12 v which puts me at 514.

Should i consider adding another flying bus power supply just to handle the slight overage or should i just go ahead and upgrade to a whole new supply that can handle it? or suck it up and try to get rid of / swap out modules for equivalent ones ones with less power usage on -12v.

I have had no problems with the Zuess up till now and i don't want to expand past 6u 140.


Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask

Thanks
I don't think anyone but yourself can answer whether you are willing to sacrifice certain modules based on their power usage, but what I can say is that I started with uzeus power supplies, and I was constantly running up against the 500 limit on the negative rail, and it was incredibly frustrating. I'd have to keep moving modules around to different rows to stay under the limit, or sacrifice them entirely, and it was really cramping my creative process. If the uZeus modules were like 1,750 on the positive and 750 on the negative...they would be perfect for my use, but alas they are what they are. I finally ended up caving and moving to the 4ms row power solution. Takes up slightly more HP to have a module on each row, but the distribution between +12v, -12v, and 5v is way more optimal, and I literally don't have to think or worry about power anymore, which removes a barrier between the rack and myself. I'll admit it's frustrating to having to spend hundreds of dollars just dealing with power issues, when that money could be spent on more creative areas, but i think the return on that investment has been overall positive. Just my experience is all!

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by modeleus » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:47 am

_lampshade_ wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:04 am
Image

So i hit the limit of 500 on the negative 12 volt rail of my tiptop uzeus with boost adapter.

I have the Ikarie filter coming in the mail and plan to get the Ens osc soon as well 100 and 50 respectively on -12 v which puts me at 514.

Should i consider adding another flying bus power supply just to handle the slight overage or should i just go ahead and upgrade to a whole new supply that can handle it? or suck it up and try to get rid of / swap out modules for equivalent ones ones with less power usage on -12v.

I have had no problems with the Zuess up till now and i don't want to expand past 6u 140.


Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask

Thanks
I tend to recommend to change the flying bus to a proper bus board with extra Amps, you will gain in current for all your present and future modules, gain 4HP of space that is vital for that packed case and improve the potential noise problems that the flying bus has.
But you have the last word as you are the only one who knows how is your system evolving.

Tell us what your final decision was.

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by modeleus » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:52 am

The guys at Genus Modu made a paper explaining all the concepts and potential problems in Eurorack Power Distribution with very cool measurements, graphics and explanations. If someone is interested in knowing more about some noise-related issues you may have with your system here is the link:

http://www.genusmodu.com/products/libb-wp-01.html

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by ForAiur » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:13 am

Is this also the thread to ask what I can do about always getting little elctricity sparks when I touch my setup? Even if the case isn't even powered yet? I have 3 cases powered with wall plugs and 3 very small ones with USB (Polyend Anywhere). From what I understand, there are two things I have to look out for:

1. Don't cross electricity cables with audio cables or audio will be distorted (working on that cable management)
2: When it comes to USB, what people say seems to be a bit tricky. If my case is powered via USB and another USB connection leaves the same case (Expert Sleepers ES-9) and connects to an iPad (that itself is not being charged) people say that this can cause those micro-sparks when I hit the metal case with a patch cable (intellijel cases) or just touch metal stuff in general.

Would this be the thread to get answers on 2?

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by Jon MacheeeN Boi » Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:23 pm

Hello all. Please forgive if this is cliche newbishness. I have a Behringer Go. It is pretty good but the power cable is ridiculously short. Like seriously, what sort of design is this? Anyway, I am looking at getting a DC extender cable. The Behringer adaptor says 13v on it, and all the DC extender cables I can find are for 12v. Would a 12v cable be ok with a 13v adapter? Thanks and gratitude in advance.
A newb with the itch and a bit of gear.

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by modeleus » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:24 am

ForAiur wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:13 am
Is this also the thread to ask what I can do about always getting little elctricity sparks when I touch my setup? Even if the case isn't even powered yet? I have 3 cases powered with wall plugs and 3 very small ones with USB (Polyend Anywhere). From what I understand, there are two things I have to look out for:

1. Don't cross electricity cables with audio cables or audio will be distorted (working on that cable management)
2: When it comes to USB, what people say seems to be a bit tricky. If my case is powered via USB and another USB connection leaves the same case (Expert Sleepers ES-9) and connects to an iPad (that itself is not being charged) people say that this can cause those micro-sparks when I hit the metal case with a patch cable (intellijel cases) or just touch metal stuff in general.

Would this be the thread to get answers on 2?
Do you have a voltage meter? Check if you are properly grounded at that could be a potential health risk. A technician came yesterday to my studio to fix the ground connection, as it wasn´t properly installed. That fixed the noise and the little static electricity feeling when you touch any metallic electric object.

Ask if you still have doubts! Good luck

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by modeleus » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:36 am

Jon MacheeeN Boi wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:23 pm
Hello all. Please forgive if this is cliche newbishness. I have a Behringer Go. It is pretty good but the power cable is ridiculously short. Like seriously, what sort of design is this? Anyway, I am looking at getting a DC extender cable. The Behringer adaptor says 13v on it, and all the DC extender cables I can find are for 12v. Would a 12v cable be ok with a 13v adapter? Thanks and gratitude in advance.
The power conversion works like this:
1-you have 220V AC and it gets converted to 13V DC in the power brick
2-you obtain +-12V in the power bus.

Generally, for the power bus to do its job it will need some kind of voltage margin between the input and the output. Getting a 12V power brick may (kindda) work but you will get less than +-12V, so your modules mostly will work but you will have a little decompensation. This may not work at all if the converters need that extra margin. It depends on the converter and thats a bit trickier.

The other option may be to get a 15V DC adapter. But that may damage things as it is "overrated" for the 13V Case. It shouldnt damage it because the converters inside the Bus should handle that excess without a problem.

Lastly, why do you need a DC extender when you can get a common 220 V extender for less money?

What a dou***bag Behringer is, selling non-standard bricks that doesn´t enhance in ANY way its purpose and just makes it more difficult for the user to replace it. Maybe a strategy so you buy the "original and compatible".

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by modeleus » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:49 am

Jon MacheeeN Boi wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:23 pm
Hello all. Please forgive if this is cliche newbishness. I have a Behringer Go. It is pretty good but the power cable is ridiculously short. Like seriously, what sort of design is this? Anyway, I am looking at getting a DC extender cable. The Behringer adaptor says 13v on it, and all the DC extender cables I can find are for 12v. Would a 12v cable be ok with a 13v adapter? Thanks and gratitude in advance.
Just checked some inside pics of the power bus. Its using 3 LDO regulators (MIC2940A) Datasheet

Also a negative LDO for the -12V (LM2990) Datasheet

They are rated to work almost at the same Input-Output Voltage, depending on the consumption of the Case. Any of the solutions posted above should work. If you have a voltage meter, get all your modules out of the case, plug in 12V DC and measure what voltage are you getting in the Header, if everything is fine connect a module and check if the voltage has any variation. Repeat that process with all your modules and see if you suffer a significant voltage drop.

If not, you are good to go, congrats!

If you do, unplug everything again and use the 15V DC power brick. Measure if the output voltage in the Header is correct and repeat the iteration.

I´m pretty sure anything will be damaged as the capacitors are rated for 25V and the power conversion circuit is simple, but please, do this at your own risk.

Post an answer if it worked so any other user can "hack" its Behringer Case as well. Ask if you have any doubts.

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by Jon MacheeeN Boi » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:16 am

modeleus wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:49 am
Jon MacheeeN Boi wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:23 pm
Hello all. Please forgive if this is cliche newbishness. I have a Behringer Go. It is pretty good but the power cable is ridiculously short. Like seriously, what sort of design is this? Anyway, I am looking at getting a DC extender cable. The Behringer adaptor says 13v on it, and all the DC extender cables I can find are for 12v. Would a 12v cable be ok with a 13v adapter? Thanks and gratitude in advance.
Just checked some inside pics of the power bus. Its using 3 LDO regulators (MIC2940A) Datasheet

Also a negative LDO for the -12V (LM2990) Datasheet

They are rated to work almost at the same Input-Output Voltage, depending on the consumption of the Case. Any of the solutions posted above should work. If you have a voltage meter, get all your modules out of the case, plug in 12V DC and measure what voltage are you getting in the Header, if everything is fine connect a module and check if the voltage has any variation. Repeat that process with all your modules and see if you suffer a significant voltage drop.

If not, you are good to go, congrats!

If you do, unplug everything again and use the 15V DC power brick. Measure if the output voltage in the Header is correct and repeat the iteration.

I´m pretty sure anything will be damaged as the capacitors are rated for 25V and the power conversion circuit is simple, but please, do this at your own risk.

Post an answer if it worked so any other user can "hack" its Behringer Case as well. Ask if you have any doubts.
Many thanks for your detailed answers Modeleus. Food for thought. Much appreciated.
A newb with the itch and a bit of gear.

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by Flaschendeckel » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:36 pm

Hey all! My first post on muffwiggler and I want to start it right, eg. with a stupid question.

I just bought my first eurorack skiff with a Doepfer A-100 DIY PSU and two bus boards in it. I bought it second hand and it also has a power button, which the previous owner bypassed by taking the power cable directly into the PSU. I have an extra cable that is meant to connect the button to the PSU, is there any way I can now which cable (red and yellow ends) should be attached to which pin without measuring equipment?

I threw up some pictures on this imgur:


I appreciate your input and hope my future posts will be more worthwhile!

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by modeleus » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:00 am

Flaschendeckel wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:36 pm
Hey all! My first post on muffwiggler and I want to start it right, eg. with a stupid question.

I just bought my first eurorack skiff with a Doepfer A-100 DIY PSU and two bus boards in it. I bought it second hand and it also has a power button, which the previous owner bypassed by taking the power cable directly into the PSU. I have an extra cable that is meant to connect the button to the PSU, is there any way I can now which cable (red and yellow ends) should be attached to which pin without measuring equipment?

I threw up some pictures on this imgur:


I appreciate your input and hope my future posts will be more worthwhile!
Could you please post an image of the inside of the Case with the button and power jack pins clearly visible so I can draw you the correct wiring?

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by Flaschendeckel » Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:36 am

Hey modeleus, thanks for offering your help! Here are some more pictures of the skiff, a few close-ups and a view of the full interior of the case.


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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by wwwwooo » Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:54 pm

just received a secondhand tiptop mantis in the mail, and these large red capacitors(?) on the power board seem to be pretty out of wack.

photos:

is this okay?? i dont know anything about electronics and so im hesitant to plug any modules in

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by modeleus » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:41 pm

wwwwooo wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:54 pm
just received a secondhand tiptop mantis in the mail, and these large red capacitors(?) on the power board seem to be pretty out of wack.

photos:

is this okay?? i dont know anything about electronics and so im hesitant to plug any modules in
No problem at all, as you can see the footprint of the capacitor (white box in serigraphy) is drawn so the capacitor lays parallel to the PCB. Just be careful when bending the legs. You don´t have to do that if you don´t think it is necessary but you will gain a bit of extra space on the rack.

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by eewok typoq » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:02 pm

Hello guys!
I've had a trouble with my doepfer A-100 diy Psu.
I've tried to plug a module and did the holy mistake to plug it red cable on +12v. I know, I know, big shame on me.
I know this module has most probably passed away, the problem is the case doesn't show any signs of life anymore since then. When I plugged the faulty module and turn the case on, nothing happened. I was about to think that I've burnt them all, so I've tried one module (Nebulae 2) on another case of a friend it worked (cold sweat moment) fine.
So, I assume I didn't burnt the whole set, but I still can't figure what is actually fried right now.
The transformer was quite hot, the led's don't light up, and no there were no smoke neither bad smell.
Do someone have a trick to know if it's the PSU that burnt or the transformer/power-brick ?

Thanks in advance :)
We have very little control, just a lot of intentions.

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by modeleus » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:05 pm

Sorry to hear that...Have you got a multimeter or oscilloscope? You can check voltages across the PSU to see which component is damaged.
Does the PSU got a fuse? that may be blown away because of the short circuit. Check it and, if it is damaged, replace it.
Everything should be fine.

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by Peng33 » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:25 pm

Hello...I am hoping to purchase just purchased a 9U 84 HP case using three u-Zeus power kits. It comes with three wall warts, one for each, but which do not come with the US adapters. Aside from not wanting to hunt down three plug adapters, I am not trying to dedicate a surge protector solely for three huge wall warts, so I was hoping something like this would work to power all three at once:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... al-adapter

I would like to pay $25 less, but this one seems to not be the right choice for a 9U case:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... al-adapter

Also, would this work to connect all three, or do I run the risk of melting them or anything if I use it with the super-powerful one listed above?

https://koma-elektronik.com/?product=1- ... hain-cable


As for how much power I am pulling right now...I am in overflow mode on a Behringer GO case, which is 280 HP to the 240 HP (taking into account the u-Zeus power kits x3) on this one, and have had zero power issues with the Behringer...I think it is rated for 1000mA on the +12 per section times three sections...so most likely that 2000 mA one above would be pushing it.

But any advice would be appreciated.

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Re: The Definitive Connecting Power Thread

Post by modeleus » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:49 am

I don´t think that a standard 9U 84HP Case would need more than a couple of amps in each rail. The PSU you chose (PSU) is almost 5 amps and with the Koma Adapter it would work just fine. You can check the power consumption of your Case on ModularGrid.

In the worst case scenario modules wont work as normal as they don´t have enough power...you can´t "fry" anything.

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