Voting open for your top 3 tracks in our Odd Meter Remix/ReMangle/Reimagine Challenge

Prizes generously donated by:
ADDAC System (Eurorack 3U)
Endorphin.es (Eurorack 3U)
Fred's Lab (DIY Paraphonic Synth)
Northern Light Modular (Buchla-format h-series OR Eurorack3U)
Rattly and Raw (Wiggler Approved Kontakt Instrument)
Studio.h (Buchla-format 4U)

Get your vote on and free 42 minute modular playlist for your listening pleasure.

MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Cwejman, Doepfer, Erica, MakeNoise, Mutable instruments, TipTop Audio, Analogue Solutions, and much more! The world’s most popular format.
Be sure to look into MANUFACTURER SUB-FORA as well..

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
studio460
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1976
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:35 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Contact:

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by studio460 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:21 pm

DATA's master-clock:

I asked here earlier if anyone was using the DATA's clock features, then finally just looked it up in the manual. It turns out the DATA has an incredibly capable built-in clock (four of 'em)! Here's an excerpt from the manual on the internal master-clock features (there's another page describing the external-sync mode).

I was looking for a clock because I just ordered a B-stock WMD Arpitecht. I knew I already owned a few modules with built-in clocks, but this is just great! Kinda like a mini-Pam's built right into your DATA!

Image
Image

User avatar
studioutopia
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 571
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by studioutopia » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:24 am

Feature request!
I really wish there was a quad tuner mode.
Laid out similar to the Clock Out program. Each quadrant would show the Frequency; The Note, shown with a + or - if it isn't within +/-0.02; and the Note Difference, color coded for the inputs like the scope.
This would make setting up FM ratios a breeze.
You could make it enabled with a toggle button on the top next to Normalize, so you could flip back and forth to the single channel with the single graphic tuner needle style.
A third optional view would be a graphical strobe tuner mode for a different visual reference.

I original bought DATA to view waveforms, but the tuner has become an invaluable tool nearly half the time. Especially since I really dove into Complex Oscillators and deep FM exploration.

User avatar
morgulbee
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:31 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by morgulbee » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:43 am

Quad tuner would be fantastic!

User avatar
bemushroomed
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:30 am
Location: Sweden

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by bemushroomed » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 am

Any way of getting a default setup instead of the boring menu every time you start up the module? It really sucks.
I searched the manual for default and start but didn't find anything. I know you can go through the hassle of loading a setup.

User avatar
studioutopia
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 571
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by studioutopia » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:53 am

bemushroomed wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 am
Any way of getting a default setup instead of the boring menu every time you start up the module? It really sucks.
I searched the manual for default and start but didn't find anything. I know you can go through the hassle of loading a setup.
Even if it just loaded setup #1 by default would be a wonderful convenience!

User avatar
bemushroomed
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:30 am
Location: Sweden

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by bemushroomed » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:02 am

yeah, seems really strange that it's not been put into priority 1 to add, it should have been there from the start. I mean i might use the menu once or twice in a week to select something else, but the default/preferred mode is what i'm going to use 90% of the time, and i bet it's the same for most people.. Therefore it makes very little sense to have a menu at the start.

Arguments like "it's so fast to use the menu anyways" are really stupid (i searched the thread) or "maybe they have better things to do with their time". lol.. What if you end up with 8-10 digital modules and for each of these you have to load at start? It will suck.
The fun of modular is that everything should be like how you left it, not having to fiddle with menus to get it going. Every Euro manufacturer must keep this in mind i think, otherwise it will get very tiresome.

User avatar
deft_bonz
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:46 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by deft_bonz » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:33 am

Quad Tuner ... go go go !!!

Seems to me like a obvious feature, when having 4 inputs, that are capable of showing different things at the same time, but not the frequency/note. It's easy to switch the input. Having them simultaneously shown would be just great.

PS: I wonder, if it's maybe technically not possible.

analogbrainsurgeon
Common Wiggler
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:30 pm

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by analogbrainsurgeon » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:58 am

I'm pretty sure the guys at Mordax said the startup menu will not change or be selectable, that it will always be set to boot the way it does now. I remember reading this on a forum a while ago.

User avatar
bemushroomed
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:30 am
Location: Sweden

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by bemushroomed » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:46 am

Ok. Might consider sending it back because i hate modules like that.

User avatar
BaloErets
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:00 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Contact:

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by BaloErets » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:08 pm

bemushroomed wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:02 am
yeah, seems really strange that it's not been put into priority 1 to add, it should have been there from the start. I mean i might use the menu once or twice in a week to select something else, but the default/preferred mode is what i'm going to use 90% of the time, and i bet it's the same for most people.. Therefore it makes very little sense to have a menu at the start.

Arguments like "it's so fast to use the menu anyways" are really stupid (i searched the thread) or "maybe they have better things to do with their time". lol.. What if you end up with 8-10 digital modules and for each of these you have to load at start? It will suck.
The fun of modular is that everything should be like how you left it, not having to fiddle with menus to get it going. Every Euro manufacturer must keep this in mind i think, otherwise it will get very tiresome.
Personally I prefer how it is. Starting at the menu gives you a choice. If it boots up in the last app I was using but I want to use another app, then it ends up taking longer to get to where you want to go.

Ideally there would be an option to select If you wanted it to load in the last used state, or default to the menu.

User avatar
bemushroomed
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:30 am
Location: Sweden

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by bemushroomed » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:20 pm

BaloErets wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:08 pm

Personally I prefer how it is. Starting at the menu gives you a choice. If it boots up in the last app I was using but I want to use another app, then it ends up taking longer to get to where you want to go.

Ideally there would be an option to select If you wanted it to load in the last used state, or default to the menu.
Longer? The menu is one button away, so at max some milliseconds longer to not have the menu at start. This in comparison to;
1 Clicking settings
2 Clicking load
3 Going into the menu again (for whatever reason??? didn't i just choose to have my saved mode?)
4 Scrolling to (e.g) Oscilloscope (it's not even selected as default so you have to scroll, can't just click).
5 Clicking Oscilloscope (or whatever)

The way it should be done is:
2 clicks with "Settings" button to go into Load mode + load "1" - this should directly take you to the loaded mode and not to the menu yet again. That would be super quick and very efficient.

So it's not just that it doesn't have a save default mode but the menu system/load function is very poorly implemented.

User avatar
bfessler
Common Wiggler
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:09 am
Location: Vancouver, WA
Contact:

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by bfessler » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:56 pm

deft_bonz wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:33 am
Quad Tuner ... go go go !!!

Seems to me like a obvious feature, when having 4 inputs, that are capable of showing different things at the same time, but not the frequency/note. It's easy to switch the input. Having them simultaneously shown would be just great.

PS: I wonder, if it's maybe technically not possible.
Agreed it would be nice to see all 4 input frequencies at once!

You are correct though, it is a technical limitation. The method of frequency analysis the DATA is currently employing, normalized auto-correlation, is fairly slow and processor heavy, so there's no way to make it do 4 channels and still maintain the same speed of display (or as a trade off, maintain the resolution). I could make it do all 4 but it would refresh every couple seconds and would feel choppy.

But there's some potential FFT-based frequency analysis methods that would be much faster. I experimented with some when first making the DATA's tuner but wasn't able to get the resolution tight enough with it, I think it was an FFT using cubic bin interpolation and would give like +/- a few Hz of the fundamental. Since then I've come across some more promising FFT-based methods, as well as an improved auto-correlation method (SNAC) that I still need to try, but hopefully they'd allow for all 4 up and give decimal Hz accuracy.

Right now though I paused on dev again, spent the last couple weeks giving my self a crash course in Managerial Accounting, while Liz and I try to get our past books in order, file taxes, and further develop our inventory and accounting processes, fun stuff...
:deadbanana:
MORDAX - Modular Synthesis Systems

www.mordax.net

User avatar
tokidoki
Common Wiggler
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 1:44 pm
Location: Outland

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by tokidoki » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:15 pm

deft_bonz wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:33 am
Quad Tuner ... go go go !!!

Seems to me like a obvious feature, when having 4 inputs, that are capable of showing different things at the same time, but not the frequency/note. It's easy to switch the input. Having them simultaneously shown would be just great.

PS: I wonder, if it's maybe technically not possible.
Buy four DATAs. Instant gratification. We have three and use two, would like one in every row. The recent metallic pannels are perfect.

User avatar
bfessler
Common Wiggler
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:09 am
Location: Vancouver, WA
Contact:

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by bfessler » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:24 pm

tokidoki wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:15 pm

Buy four DATAs. Instant gratification. We have three and use two, would like one in every row. The recent metallic pannels are perfect.
Yes! That's the perfect solution! One DATA per row is the recommended allotment ;)

Glad you're digging the new panels :yay:
MORDAX - Modular Synthesis Systems

www.mordax.net

User avatar
BaloErets
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:00 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Contact:

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by BaloErets » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:38 pm

bemushroomed wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:20 pm
BaloErets wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:08 pm

Personally I prefer how it is. Starting at the menu gives you a choice. If it boots up in the last app I was using but I want to use another app, then it ends up taking longer to get to where you want to go.

Ideally there would be an option to select If you wanted it to load in the last used state, or default to the menu.
Longer? The menu is one button away, so at max some milliseconds longer to not have the menu at start. This in comparison to;
1 Clicking settings
2 Clicking load
3 Going into the menu again (for whatever reason??? didn't i just choose to have my saved mode?)
4 Scrolling to (e.g) Oscilloscope (it's not even selected as default so you have to scroll, can't just click).
5 Clicking Oscilloscope (or whatever)

The way it should be done is:
2 clicks with "Settings" button to go into Load mode + load "1" - this should directly take you to the loaded mode and not to the menu yet again. That would be super quick and very efficient.

So it's not just that it doesn't have a save default mode but the menu system/load function is very poorly implemented.
Then all you have to do is implement something into the DATA to read your mind as it saves all states of all the Apps. How is the Data supposed to know if you want to go to the Oscilloscope, the Clock generator, Wave Generator, etc?

User avatar
bemushroomed
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:30 am
Location: Sweden

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by bemushroomed » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:55 pm

BaloErets wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:38 pm
Then all you have to do is implement something into the DATA to read your mind as it saves all states of all the Apps. How is the Data supposed to know if you want to go to the Oscilloscope, the Clock generator, Wave Generator, etc?
Clearly it could save on which app you were on last, so that you can start off where you left. You know like almost anything when it comes to computers?

Stop being apologists for terrible implemented "features".

User avatar
deft_bonz
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:46 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by deft_bonz » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:45 am

tokidoki wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:15 pm
Buy four DATAs. Instant gratification. We have three and use two, would like one in every row. The recent metallic pannels are perfect.
:sb: I have 5 fows :hihi:
bfessler wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:56 pm
deft_bonz wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:33 am
Quad Tuner ... go go go !!!

Seems to me like a obvious feature, when having 4 inputs, that are capable of showing different things at the same time, but not the frequency/note. It's easy to switch the input. Having them simultaneously shown would be just great.

PS: I wonder, if it's maybe technically not possible.
Agreed it would be nice to see all 4 input frequencies at once!

You are correct though, it is a technical limitation. The method of frequency analysis the DATA is currently employing, normalized auto-correlation, is fairly slow and processor heavy, so there's no way to make it do 4 channels and still maintain the same speed of display (or as a trade off, maintain the resolution). I could make it do all 4 but it would refresh every couple seconds and would feel choppy.

But there's some potential FFT-based frequency analysis methods that would be much faster. I experimented with some when first making the DATA's tuner but wasn't able to get the resolution tight enough with it, I think it was an FFT using cubic bin interpolation and would give like +/- a few Hz of the fundamental. Since then I've come across some more promising FFT-based methods, as well as an improved auto-correlation method (SNAC) that I still need to try, but hopefully they'd allow for all 4 up and give decimal Hz accuracy.

Right now though I paused on dev again, spent the last couple weeks giving my self a crash course in Managerial Accounting, while Liz and I try to get our past books in order, file taxes, and further develop our inventory and accounting processes, fun stuff...
:deadbanana:
Thanks for the explanation. I had that hinch, that it is not as trivial as one might think, though I have no clue about such things :help: :lol:
At least you're digging into it and your managing skills :yay:

User avatar
studioutopia
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 571
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by studioutopia » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:53 am

bfessler wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:56 pm

Agreed it would be nice to see all 4 input frequencies at once!

You are correct though, it is a technical limitation. The method of frequency analysis the DATA is currently employing, normalized auto-correlation, is fairly slow and processor heavy, so there's no way to make it do 4 channels and still maintain the same speed of display (or as a trade off, maintain the resolution). I could make it do all 4 but it would refresh every couple seconds and would feel choppy.

But there's some potential FFT-based frequency analysis methods that would be much faster. I experimented with some when first making the DATA's tuner but wasn't able to get the resolution tight enough with it, I think it was an FFT using cubic bin interpolation and would give like +/- a few Hz of the fundamental. Since then I've come across some more promising FFT-based methods, as well as an improved auto-correlation method (SNAC) that I still need to try, but hopefully they'd allow for all 4 up and give decimal Hz accuracy.

Right now though I paused on dev again, spent the last couple weeks giving my self a crash course in Managerial Accounting, while Liz and I try to get our past books in order, file taxes, and further develop our inventory and accounting processes, fun stuff...
:deadbanana:
Thanks, Brandon!

User avatar
AMillionMonkeys
Common Wiggler
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:38 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by AMillionMonkeys » Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:49 am

bemushroomed wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:55 pm
BaloErets wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:38 pm
Then all you have to do is implement something into the DATA to read your mind as it saves all states of all the Apps. How is the Data supposed to know if you want to go to the Oscilloscope, the Clock generator, Wave Generator, etc?
Clearly it could save on which app you were on last, so that you can start off where you left. You know like almost anything when it comes to computers?

Stop being apologists for terrible implemented "features".
bfessler has acknowledged that this is a decision they made about how they want the module to function.

The fact that people want it doesn’t mean it must be implemented.

Granted, I’d probably just implement it if I were them to shut all the complainers up but it’s their choice.

At the end of the day, each person has a limited amount of time to devote to their work. If Mordax doesn’t want to dedicate time to a feature that they don’t value, it’s their choice. If people decide not to buy the module because of it, that’s their choice.

User avatar
bemushroomed
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:30 am
Location: Sweden

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by bemushroomed » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:38 am

AMillionMonkeys wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:49 am

bfessler has acknowledged that this is a decision they made about how they want the module to function.
Lots of users disagree (and they should have the final word, not what one developer thinks fits him/they personally) + it could be a choice to have the menu at start or start with the latest setup and app. It's all down to laziness or not wiling to put in the time / effort, which of course is very common for software overall. But again, it doesn't help that some people are defending it, that is very counterproductive. Fanboys is not what the community needs, it's never a good thing. Instead, give constructive criticism when you can, be more picky, and we will have better modules, more effort put into it etc.

The implementation is poor and a total time waste for thousands of users, it's just not how you do a thing like this. I would argue the same for an OS or any other commercial product if its not done in a user friendly way. If a dev says "my opinion is worth more than the users, i don't care." then it's obviously not someone i want to support, this person needs a reality check. It's one thing to do something for yourself, and something completely different to sell something and have a user base.

User avatar
Kent
Curator/Janitor/Zookeeper
Posts: 13284
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by Kent » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:10 pm

Well, that’s certainly an opinion.

Insisting that users/buyers/customers should have the FINAL say on something is detached from reality. A nice way to live if one can afford to do so.

Let’s rein this in a bit, folks.

User avatar
BaloErets
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:00 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Contact:

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by BaloErets » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:58 pm

Kent wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:10 pm
Well, that’s certainly an opinion.

Insisting that users/buyers/customers should have the FINAL say on something is detached from reality. A nice way to live if one can afford to do so.

Let’s rein this in a bit, folks.
Agreed. A world where every request from every customer gets implemented into a product is a world without products at all. You can't make everyone happy, but with the reputation and popularity of the DATA I think it's safe to say that they've done a pretty good job a making most of their users happy.

Now where's that sequencer they promised? :hihi:

escargot
Common Wiggler
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:21 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by escargot » Fri May 07, 2021 4:06 am

Bemushroomed is quite right though. I don’t think anyone here would complain about having a setup menu on how you user would like to have your module behave at startup. And I can’t care less about more features like sequencer or clock or wave player when you can’t have those different features on different channels, which we know now will never happen because there isn’t a good enough processor in it.

User avatar
BaloErets
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:00 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Contact:

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by BaloErets » Fri May 07, 2021 9:29 am

escargot wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 4:06 am
Bemushroomed is quite right though. I don’t think anyone here would complain about having a setup menu on how you user would like to have your module behave at startup. And I can’t care less about more features like sequencer or clock or wave player when you can’t have those different features on different channels, which we know now will never happen because there isn’t a good enough processor in it.
100% agree that no one would complain to have the "option" of how it behaves on startup, providing that those of us who like having the menu on startup are not affected.

One thing I think that is often forgotten is that the DATA is not an Oscilloscope. It's been sold since day 1 as a Multi-functional Tool/Signal Analyser/Signal Generator, with one of the functions being an Oscilloscope. So perhaps sequencers and clocks are not important for you personally, but they are important features from the product standpoint and those of us that purchased it to use the multiple functions that it provides.

jollyjack
Common Wiggler
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: MORDAX : DATA - Now available for pre-order

Post by jollyjack » Fri May 07, 2021 9:41 am

I would assume 90% of users got the module mainly for the oscilloscope mode, and are pretty happy with that feature alone. Can't imagine anyone is impatiently waiting to use it as a sequencer. There's an abundance of dedicated modules for that already. UI improvements should definitely be higher on the priority list in my opinion, as it's basically the only thing people are requesting here, or at least the vast majority of them. And it's really no surprise because it's what affects everyone, regardless of use case. Sadly the answer is usually "Try this impractical workaround" or "It's supposed to work like that" (paraphrasing, obviously).
I don't want to put pressure on Mr. Fessler/Mordax as I don't have any insight in his/their daily dealings (personal or company-related) but there seems to be a clear disconnect between what he wants and what customers are asking for. He might have a very specific idea of how he wants the module to function and what he wants to focus on, but to give users more options to customize it to their needs would only benefit everyone (as long as it's reasonably simple to implement). Not every request can be fulfilled of course, but I've seen the same few requests for years now.

Post Reply

Return to “1U & 3U Eurorack Modules”