update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Blacet, Metalbox, Synthasonic, PAiA and the rest.... a frac frenzy!

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revtor
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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by revtor » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:22 pm

pugix wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:32 pm
I ordered some of this line to try.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/3M ... VTHw%3D%3D
Looks like a nice part and a nice price
Fellow North Jersey Synthaholic

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by synthcube » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:31 pm

One of the troublesome-to-locate Blacet parts is knobs- as you all know, his original Rean types are no longer made. We have spent some time looking for the absolute closest version we can-- and we think we have found something we can live with--- these are soft touch, d-shaft knobs with the colored index lines, with very much the same look and feel; you can see the line varies a bit in thickness, but its awfully close.
Consistent with the original kits, we'll offer our synthCube Blacet kits with your choice of knob colors, rather than kitting a specific color; customize your 'new' Blacet rigs with a single knob color or mix for that rainbow effect :)

old vs new knob style.jpg
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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by KSS » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:37 pm

Both of those are already at least 2nd gen? Which is your new going forward? The one on the right is closer to the old Reans. On left looks like what John had changed to when Rean was no longer available?

I thought I came across some new import source for what looked like the old Reans recently. Tapered index line. I'll try to find it again.

What is Bugbrand using now?

Edit: In the Qty you buy, I'd expect you could get someone like Chia Shin to make you near exact copies of Reans?

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by soup » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:21 pm

Are those reverse d-shafts? I'm not sure if things have changed with the new pots you've found but blacet used reverse d-shafts which I've never seen in the wild in small quantities. If they are please make them available on their own.

For the blacet style modules I've been making for fun I've been using knurled pots with these knobs from modular addict...
max-crbaxt-family_1_4.jpg
I've seen similar from other vendors. Maybe slightly fatter indicator but they look the same as the blacet knobs to me.

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by KSS » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:45 pm

^Those are the ones I'd seen !

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by BugBrand » Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:18 am

I still get similar (but T18) from Rapid: https://www.rapidonline.com/re-an-16mm- ... nobs-64710
I've direct-sourced other 'rean' knobs (the 19mm ones) from http://www.ks-technik.eu/?lang=en
[are the ones on the left of synthcube's pic from Sifam?)

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by paults » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:04 pm

MP process:
Each pin of the MP socket is made up of a turned socket on a lathe. Like the drawing above, but with an thin extending pin below. Then it's plated. Next a stamping for the vanes is made which requires at least three operations: Blanking, Fining and forming. It then needs not only platingbut also tempering to ensure enduring spring qualities.
Then these two parts are joined in a seventh process. Now a bunch of these are corralled into molds and once over-molded you have a finished MP socket.

DW process:
The Dual wipe also has the three steps of stamping per pin <-- But they're all flat, simple. Which is then plated.
Completely separately, the IC socket is molded in one piece. The stamped pins are inserted into the molded body. Done.

Now as you read both of those, which do you think has more room for error? For cost? For shortcuts? For hidden bad quality?
And most important, which do you think costs more to make?
KSS: do you just pretend all over MW to know what you are talking about? Seriously, you need a new hobby, like stamp collecting.

I worked 5 yrs as the technical apps engineer for ITT Cannon the people that INVENTED the screw machined socket. And you are full of shit.

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by KSS » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:42 pm

KSS wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:41 pm
:tu:
Please correct the errors then. We'll all benefit.

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by paults » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:50 pm

there is ZERO correlation between "the number of manufacturing steps" and socket reliability/performance.

I have not read the entire thread, but I can guess what it's about (having been through this "debate" 100 times in 40 years)

The ONLY time to use a socket is if the part:

a) can be field upgraded, like the CPU on the PC motherboard, firmware EPROMs, or added memory
b) very rare, and by that I mean it's at LEAST 25x the cost of the socket

and if you USE a socket, use a screw machine socket. Augat used to be the gold standard, now Mil-Max is.

Since this is, after all, MW, I fully expect many people chanting BUT IT WORKS GREAT FOR ME.

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by KSS » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:59 pm

Thanks. We're in almost total agreement.
I said more mfg. steps have more room for error, and cost more. I did not say total steps means better or worse.
And we'll disagree about whether to use dual wipe or MP when using a socket.
But we do agree on Augat and that using a socket at all is a poor choice except for the reasons you've shared. I said as much in the thread too.

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by synthcube » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:56 am

We really appreciate the dialogue and expert opinions--- to be clear from where we sit:
1) We have not taken a position on 'socket ICs vs don't socket ICs.' But we do add sockets to our kits for those people who choose to use them.
2) We have decided to add dual wiper sockets rather than machine pin sockets to our kits, but will continue to offer both types so builders have the option.
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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by synthcube » Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:47 pm

mystery part-- can't find any reference to it other than what's on the drawer-- 'Conn, Ribbon 0.1'
Used for the VCO kit and others.... look familiar?

ribbon connector.jpg
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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by soup » Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:41 pm

I've not actually built any of the newer pcb mount designs but that looks like a ribbon connector for connecting multiple pcb's like seen here...
EG3870fpSide.jpg
EG3870fpSide.jpg (108.67 KiB) Viewed 778 times

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by KSS » Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:33 pm

^Yes, and -as shown- can be replaced by a less-expensive .100 O.C. ribbon. Digi-key sells by the foot. I use #22 ga to have the stiffer ends closer to the type shown in your photo. In this photo just above is the item I'm describing. You can see it's different in construction and character, but is used for the same purpose as the type in the Synthcube photo.

@Synthcube
You'd use a hot blade stripper. Buy a roll of the .100 ribbon -common ribbon is .050- and get or make a hot knife stripper for the ends. Then you'd be able to easily and quickly make these bd-2-bd cons in as many different types -length, number of circuits- as your modules may require. Save money and stocking issues too. From the customer standpoint, there's no downside. Function and ease of install is basically equivalent.

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by Revok » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:26 am

No solid name on this type of ribbon wire but somewhere to start maybe.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... ypass=true

Edit: So FFC cable seems to be it but the connectors are tough to find. Male to Male FFC Jumper 2.54mm gets some search results.

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by synthcube » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:35 pm

one mystery partially solved--- John's original supplier for these short multi-pin ribbon connectors was AllElectronics, and they tell us they no longer offer the part. So once our supply runs out, we will shift over to the short male-male dupont ribbon connectors (Edgetech) which will serve the same purpose.

blacet ribbon connectors.jpg
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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by kedowe » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:45 am

I'm excited! Sorry if this was posted and I missed it, but are you guys planning on offering PCB + Panel options for all the modules?

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by synthcube » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:59 pm

kedowe wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:45 am
I'm excited! Sorry if this was posted and I missed it, but are you guys planning on offering PCB + Panel options for all the modules?
we are, indeed.
thanks
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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by metasonix » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:34 pm

paults wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:04 pm
KSS: do you just pretend all over MW to know what you are talking about? Seriously, you need a new hobby, like stamp collecting.

I worked 5 yrs as the technical apps engineer for ITT Cannon the people that INVENTED the screw machined socket. And you are full of shit.
lol

Metasonix uses Mill-Max IC sockets. Never have any problems with them. And we make our own tube sockets using Harwin 1mm pin sockets, Mouser 855-H3161-01. Also excellent quality (if you're insane enough to use vacuum tubes). Do NOT use those flashy ceramic Chinese tube sockets with the gold plating--they look pretty but are actually quite crap.

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Re: update on Blacet kits migration to synthCube

Post by KSS » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:23 pm

I did collect stamps back in the 60s. Gave it up for synths.

---------------
Harwin -or mill max 1mm sockets and pins- work well for ARP submodules and DOAs too.

Completely agree that the quality of Chinese connectors is often less than stellar.
Treat utility modules as stars instead of backup singers.
Treat power supplies like Rockstars instead of roadies!
Chase magic sound, not magic parts.

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